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About Brought to you by EppoRun reliable, impactful experiments | VantaAutomate compliance. Simplify security | EzraThe leading full-body cancer screening companyLane Shackleton is CPO of Coda, where hes been leading the product and design team for over eight years. Lane started his career as an Alaskan climbing guide and then as a manual reviewer of AdWords ads before becoming a product specialist at Google and later a Group PM at YouTube. He also writes a weekly newsletter with insights and rituals for PMs, product teams, and startups. In todays conversation, we discuss: Principles that set great PMs apart Rituals of great product teams The fine line between OKRs and strategy, and why it matters Two-way write-up The story of how skippable YouTube ads were born and lessons learned How to gauge personal career growth Tim Ferriss Day and its impact on Codas history How Lane bootstrapped his way to CPO from the bottom of the tech ladderFind the transcript for this episode and all past episodes at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/episodes/. Todays transcript will be live by 8 a.m. PT.Where to find Lane Shackleton: X: https://twitter.com/lshackleton LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laneshackleton Substack: https://lane.substack.com/Where to find Lenny: Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com X: https://twitter.com/lennysan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Lanes background(04:03) Working as a guide in Alaska(07:32) Parallels between guiding and building software(09:12) Why Lane started studying and writing about product teams(12:49) How Lane came up with the career ladder and guiding principles(14:10) The five levels Codas career ladder(16:30) Principles of great product managers(21:06) The beginners-mind ritual at Coda(24:05) Two rituals: cathedrals not bricks and proactive not reactive(27:46) How to develop your own guiding principles(31:17) Learning from your oh s**t moments(36:03) Rituals from great product teams: HubSpots FlashTags(42:15) Rituals from great product teams: Codas Catalyst(47:01) Implementing rituals from other companies(49:48) How to navigate changing vs. sticking with current rituals(53:02) Tag up and why one-on-one meetings are harmful(55:27) Lanes handbook on strategy and rituals(57:10) How skippable ads came about on YouTube(1:01:46) Lanes path to CPO(1:07:02) Advice for aspiring PMs(1:10:53) Tim Ferriss Day at Coda(1:13:24) Using two-way write-ups(1:19:30) The fine line between OKRs and strategy, and why it matters(1:21:41) Lightning roundReferenced: Endurance: https://www.amazon.com/Endurance-Shackletons-Incredible-Alfred-Lansing/dp/0465062881 Bret Victors talk Inventing on Principle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGqwXt90ZqA Jeremy Britton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremybritton/ Comedian on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/60024976 The Score Takes Care of Itself: My Philosophy of Leadership: https://www.amazon.com/Score-Takes-Care-Itself-Philosophy/dp/1591843472 The Creative Act: A Way of Being: https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Act-Way-Being/dp/0593652886 AlphaZero: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaZero Antoine de Saint-Exupry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint-Exup%C3%A9ry Storyworthy: Engage, Teach, Persuade, and Change Your Life through the Power of Storytelling: https://www.amazon.com/Storyworthy-Engage-Persuade-through-Storytelling/dp/1608685489 The Moth: https://themoth.org/events Seth Godins website: https://www.sethgodin.com/ The Obstacle Is the Way: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph: https://www.amazon.com/Obstacle-Way-Timeless-Turning-Triumph/dp/1591846358 Tony Fadells TED talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uOMectkCCs FlashTags: A Simple Hack for Conveying Context Without Confusion: https://www.onstartups.com/flashtags-a-simple-hack-for-conveying-context-without-confusion How Coda builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-coda-builds-product 100-dollar voting ritual: https://coda.io/@lshackleton/100-dollar-voting-exercise Pixars Brain Trust: https://pixar.fandom.com/wiki/Brain_Trust Lanes product handbook: coda.io/producthandbook The rituals of great teams | Shishir Mehrotra of Coda, YouTube, Microsoft: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-rituals-of-great-teams-shishir-mehrotra-coda-youtube-microsoft/ Principle #4: Learn by making, not talking: https://lane.substack.com/p/principle-4-learn-by-making-not-talking Phil Farhi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philfarhi/ How to ask the right questions, project confidence, and win over skeptics | Paige Costello (Asana, Intercom, Intuit): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-ask-the-right-questions-project-confidence-and-win-over-skeptics-paige-costello-asana-intercom-intuit/ Chip Conleys website: https://chipconley.com/ Jeff Bezos Banned PowerPoint in Meetings. His Replacement Is Brilliant: https://www.inc.com/carmine-gallo/jeff-bezos-bans-powerpoint-in-meetings-his-replacement-is-brilliant.html Working Backwards: Insights, Stories, and Secrets from Inside Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Working-Backwards-Insights-Stories-Secrets/dp/1250267595 Dory and Pulse: https://coda.io/@codatemplates/dory-and-pulse Turning the Flywheel: A Monograph to Accompany Good to Great: https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Flywheel-Monograph-Accompany-Great/dp/0062933795/ Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion: https://www.amazon.com/Waking-Up-Spirituality-Without-Religion/dp/1451636024 The Inner Game of Tennis: The Classic Guide to the Mental Side of Peak Performance: https://www.amazon.com/Inner-Game-Tennis-Classic-Performance/dp/0679778314 Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-Difference-Matters/dp/0307886239 The Last Dance on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80203144 Full Swing on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81483353 Stephen Curry: Underrated on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/stephen-curry-underrated/umc.cmc.23v0wxaiwz60bjy1w4vg7npun Arrested Development on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/70140358 Shishirs interview question clip on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lennyrachitsky/video/7160779872296652078 The Ultimate Reference Check Template: https://coda.io/@startup-hiring/reference-checks-template SwingVision: https://swing.tennis/ Waking Up app: https://www.wakingup.com/Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at http://www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe More Episodes Episode Building Anchor, selling to Spotify, and lessons learned | Maya Prohovnik (Spotifys Head of Podcast Product)

Brought to you by SidebarCatalyze your career with a Personal Board of Directors | Wix StudioThe web creation platform built for agencies | LinkedIn AdsReach professionals and drive results for your businessMaya Prohovnik is currently Spotifys Head of Podcast Product. She was employee #1 at Anchor, which was acquired by Spotify in 2019 and now powers more than 80% of all new podcasts created in the world. In 2023, Maya was named one of the Most Important People in Podcasting by The Hollywood Reporter. In todays episode, we discuss: How Maya operationalizes dogfooding How to balance data-driven decision-making and intuition Strategies for preserving startup culture in a large organization Tactical tips to improve at public speaking How Radical Candor and the Eisenhower matrix transformed her approach to managing people Whats next at Spotify for PodcastersFind the transcript for this episode and all past episodes at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/episodes/. Todays transcript will be live by 8 a.m. PT.Where to find Maya Prohovnik: Threads: https://www.threads.net/@mayafish LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mayaprohovnik/Where to find Lenny: Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com X: https://twitter.com/lennysan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Mayas background(04:34) Spotifys podcasting platform(06:24) Mayas personal podcasts(11:36) The importance of dogfooding(13:24) How Maya operationalizes dogfooding(16:31) How to balance data-driven decision-making and trusting your gut(21:38) Building Anchor 2.0(26:24) The beginning of Anchors hockey stick growth(28:08) How Anchor utilized interns to make the Apple Podcasts integration magical(35:36) Anchor and Spotifys successful integration(37:50) Maintaining a startup culture within a large organization(39:20) Transitioning from a startup to a large company(42:02) Challenges brought on by the acquisition(48:49) How Mayas leadership approach is guided by Radical Candor(51:53) The Eisenhower matrix for prioritization and task management(52:46) Productivity tips(55:10) How to get better at public speaking(59:38) The future of Spotify for Podcasters(1:00:58) Lightning roundReferenced: What is Dogfooding?: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/business/dogfooding.html The Derry Connection: A Stephen King Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ixSiYlj3A9NqEXZDBgycf Blood on Their Hands: A Big Brother Fancast: https://open.spotify.com/show/4VP16lTL8sUniQXCFeBInv Time Share: A Children of Time Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/38yhl2lNOUajccfsdluh5j The End of the World as We Know It: A First-Time Parenting Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/3TUr0LxcueYo2nvnyR5rML Forgotify (stream Spotify songs that have never been played): https://forgotify.com/ Michael Mignano on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mignano/ Lessons from scaling Spotify: The science of product, taking risky bets, and how AI is already impacting the future of music | Gustav Sderstrm (Co-President, CPO, and CTO at Spotify): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-from-scaling-spotify-the-science-of-product-taking-risky-bets-and-how-ai-is-already-impacting-the-future-of-music-gustav-soderstrom-co-president-cpo-and-cto-at-spotify/ Radical Candor: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Revised-Kick-Ass-Humanity/dp/1250235375 What is the Eisenhower matrix?: https://www.figma.com/resource-library/what-is-the-eisenhower-matrix/ Todoist: https://todoist.com/ Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity: https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-Productivity/dp/0143126563/ Spotify for Podcasters: https://podcasters.spotify.com/ Children of Time: https://www.amazon.com/Children-Time-Adrian-Tchaikovsky/dp/0316452505 It: https://www.amazon.com/Novel-Stephen-King/dp/1982127791/ Poker Face on Peacock: https://www.peacocktv.com/stream-tv/poker-face Barbie on Prime: https://www.amazon.com/Barbie-Margot-Robbie/dp/B0CB1TMKR6 Deadly Games: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096741/ 1-800 Contacts: https://www.1800contacts.com/ Lovevery: https://lovevery.com/ CoopCrate: https://www.coopcratechickens.com/Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at http://www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Brought to you by PendoThe all-in-one platform for product-led companies building breakthrough digital experiences | Wix StudioThe web creation platform built for agencies | MasterworksInvest in blue-chip artNilan Peiris is Chief Product Officer at Wise, one of the fastest-growing (and profitable) tech companies in the world. Wise allows anyone to send money in more than 60 currencies to over 160 countries at low cost, and throughout its history has grown primarily through word of mouth. In todays episode, we discuss: Tactical advice on driving word of mouth (WOM) Strategies for measuring WOM How NPS surveys helped Wise determine their growth and product strategy How Wise incentivizes teams to do the hard things The small change that generated a 3x increase in referrals How Wise structures its product and growth teamsFind the transcript for this episode and all past episodes at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/episodes/. Todays transcript will be live by 8 a.m. PT.Where to find Nilan Peiris: Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/nilanp LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nilanpeiris/Where to find Lenny: Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lennysan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Nilans background(03:27) A brief overview of Wise(06:11) How word of mouth is measured(07:56) Why Wise leaned into WOM(10:21) Why Wise built their WOM motion using the NPS method(16:13) How WOM solves trust problems(19:16) How to get to 9 or 10 on the NPS scale(21:06) Determining what will wow users(22:12) Common missteps companies make when trying to drive WOM(24:05) Using the working backward method at Airbnb(26:26) How Wise is able to offer drastically lower money transfer fees(28:41) The three costs associated with moving money(32:43) Rational vs. irrational reasons behind recommendations(34:52) Prioritizing customer happiness(37:07) How Wise builds conviction(42:41) How Wise approaches experimentation(46:53) Thoughts on performance reviews and general analysis(48:48) How Wise provides a 10x better banking experience(52:39) Advice on how to approach word-of-mouth marketing(54:28) Building a culture of doing hard things(56:40) The macrostructure of international banking and where Wise fits in(1:01:57) How Wise solves for local regulations in their onboarding flow(1:03:17) How Wise structures teams(1:04:07) The small change that generated a 3x increase in referrals(1:08:42) Nilans philanthropic endeavors(1:09:55) Lightning roundReferenced: Wise: https://wise.com/us/ Henry Chen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/henry-h-chen/ About NPS: https://www.productboard.com/blog/the-power-of-nps-in-your-product-strategy/ How Snow White helped Airbnb prove that storytelling is the most important skill in design: https://uxdesign.cc/how-airbnb-proved-that-storytelling-is-the-most-important-skill-in-design-15d04ac71039 Seth Godin: This Is How You Create a Remarkable Product: https://www.businessinsider.com/seth-godin-this-is-how-you-create-a-remarkable-product-2012-10 Discover the Spotify model: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/agile-at-scale/spotify Beam: https://beam.org/ Affinity: https://affinityghana.com/ Crime and Punishment: https://www.amazon.com/Crime-Punishment-Volokhonsky-Translation-Classics/dp/0679734503 Midnights Children: https://www.amazon.com/Midnights-Children-Modern-Library-Novels/dp/0812976533 Barbie: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1517268/ Arc browser: https://arc.net/Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at http://www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Brought to you by EzraThe leading full-body cancer screening company | VantaAutomate compliance. Simplify security | LinkedIn AdsReach professionals and drive results for your businessItamar Gilad is a career coach, author, and speaker with over two decades of experience in senior product roles at Google, Microsoft, and various startups. He is also the author of Evidence-Guided: Creating High-Impact Products in the Face of Uncertainty and publishes a popular product management newsletter. In todays episode, we discuss: What it means to be evidence-guided How to think about your KPIs as metric trees How to prioritize ideas using the confidence meter The GIST model for roadmapping Common mistakes with ICE Advice for using evidence to challenge gut-driven foundersFind the transcript for this episode and all past episodes at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/episodes/. Todays transcript will be live by 8 a.m. PT.Where to find Itamar Gilad: Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/ItamarGilad LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/itamargilad/ Website: https://itamargilad.com/Where to find Lenny: Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lennysan LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Itamars background(04:35) How his time working on Gmail shaped his philosophy of opinion-based development(08:35) Lessons from developing Gmails tabbed inbox(13:40) A brief overview of Itamars book, Evidence-Guided(14:30) Balancing founder creativity with an evidence-based approach(17:32) Advice on how to push back against founders(19:36) Signs you arent as evidence-guided as you may think(21:13) Itamars GIST model for becoming more evidence-guided(23:51) How to set overarching goals using his value exchange loop(28:45) North star metrics vs. KPIs(33:47) Using ICE to assess the value of ideas(37:39) Itamars confidence meter(44:28) Speed of delivery vs. speed of discovery(46:14) How to apply Itamars frameworks based on company type and stage(49:09) First steps in becoming more evidence-guided(50:21) Next steps in testing(55:41) The task layer in the GIST framework(1:02:54) Thoughts on roadmapping(1:04:56) How OKRs fit into the whole picture(1:07:11) Lightning roundReferenced: Itamars presentation slides: https://itamargilad.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Podcast-Slides.pdf What differentiates the highest-performing product teams | John Cutler (Amplitude, The Beautiful Mess): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/what-differentiates-the-highest-performing-product-teams-john-cutler-amplitude-the-beautiful-mess/ Evidence-Guided: Creating High-Impact Products in the Face of Uncertainty: https://itamargilad.com/book-evidence-guided/ The co-founders of Google in Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/profile/larry-page-and-sergey-brin Kanban: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/kanban Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira The ultimate guide to OKRs | Christina Wodtke (Stanford): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-okrs-christina-wodtke-stanford/ Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/ The ultimate guide to A/B testing | Ronny Kohavi (Airbnb, Microsoft, Amazon): https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-ab-testing-ronny-kohavi-airbnb-microsoft-amazon/ ICE framework: https://growthmethod.com/ice-framework/ Sean Ellis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanellis/ RICE scoring model: https://www.productplan.com/glossary/rice-scoring-model/ Idea Prioritization with ICE and the Confidence Meter: https://itamargilad.com/the-tool-that-will-help-you-choose-better-product-ideas/ Assumptions Mapping: https://designsprintkit.withgoogle.com/methodology/phase2-define/assumptions-mapping What is Dog Fooding, Fish Fooding a Product?: https://matt-rickard.com/fishfooding-dogfooding-product SVPG books: https://www.svpg.com/books/ The Lean series: https://theleanstartup.com/the-lean-series Dreaming Spanish: https://www.youtube.com/c/DreamingSpanish ElevenLabs: https://elevenlabs.io/ Lennybot: https://www.lennybot.com/Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at http://www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

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Episode What sets great teams apart | Lane Shackleton (CPO of Coda) - Mirchi Plus