Your story in this summers Fiction Issue, Opening Theory, is about a man in his early twenties, a chess prodigy, and a woman in her mid-thirties, who meet when the man is playing at a chess exhibition at the arts center where the woman works. When did you first start thinking about this encounter? Did one of those characters come into focus for you first?
I started thinking about the encounter between these characters about three years ago. The two protagonists arrived in my head together, the same way my characters always havein twos or threes (or fours or fives) rather than separately. Thats just the way it happens for me. If I only conceived of one character, I dont think I would know what to do with him or her; it wouldnt feel like much of an idea at all. But, because my protagonists arrive prentangled in their various relationships, my job is a lot easier.
In this case, that means Margaret and Ivan entered my life at the same moment that they entered each others lives: the moment thats depicted in this story. Originally, the narrative was told only from Margarets point of viewIvans voice came laterbut it always began with the simultaneous exhibition game in the arts center where Margaret works. I really liked the idea of writing that scene.
Ivan Koubek, the chess prodigy, doesnt think hes all that good a player these days. Do you play chess yourself? How hard is it to play at Ivans level and to continue improving? Did you have to do much research when you were working on these pages?
Its funnythe phrase chess prodigy, to me, suggests a small child, which is the same mistake Margaret makes in the story. Ivan is twenty-two, probably past his prodigy days where chess is concerned. And, although hes talented, hes far from world-champion material.
I actually dont play chess myself. I have read a little theory and watched a lot of analysis, and Im interested in the cultural history of the game, and so on. But the idea for this story arose from my prexisting interest in the world of chess rather than the other way around. I wrote these particular scenes without doing any research. Later on, I did go looking at blog posts and articles about real simultaneous games, to check the details. Later still, I had to find out whether it was plausible that someone at Ivans level would really play a ten-game simultaneous in a small-town arts center in Ireland, but by then I wasnt prepared to take no for an answer. (I am told its at least conceivable.)
How hard is it to play at Ivans level and continue improving? I dont feel qualified to answer that. I suppose I might say I write fiction at a certain level, and I also hope to continue improving. But maybe for chess its different. It only occurred to me fairly late in the writing process that Ivans relationship with chess might be analogous to my relationship with my work, though the resemblance is far from perfect. Hes not much younger in this story than I was when I wrote my first novel. But hes probably a lot harder on himself than I was at his age.
The story switches between Ivans perspective and Margarets as each of them seems immediately drawn to the other. Is this movement from one to the other anything like the way a game of chess might unfold?
Strange as it is to say, I didnt think of that. In their dialogue, I certainly feel theres a sense of play, each of them making moves and responding to one anothers positions. But chess is a game of winning and losing; each player is always trying to defeat the other. Ivan certainly isnt trying to defeat Margaret in this story, or even to reach a stalemate. He seems to sense that theyre playing a different kind of game, in which any defeat is a defeat for both of them. And maybe hes trying to work out a strategy by which they can share in some success. Margaret, for her part, seems to be interested in watching him try.
Age is a factor that has the potential to change the outcome of the encounter between Ivan and Margaret. If the age differential were the other way around, would either of them be thinking about it?
Oh, I think so. Its a pretty sizable age gap, considering their respective stages in life. If their genders were switched, the feelings on either side would probably be very different, because of course the social realities of aging are profoundly gendered. But I dont imagine the encounter would go any more smoothly. For some reason, I think its more likely that nothing would happen between the two characters at all.
Partly thats because, if a young woman behaved as Ivan behaves in this story, that might be considered fairly strange and off-putting, rather than endearing or desirable. I tend to think that men are afforded wider social and sexual margins for their behavior than women are, at every age. Relatedly, Ivans talent for chess seems to strike Margaret as an attractive quality. Would a man in similar circumstances find a young womans intellectual prowess similarly appealing? It depends, of course, but it seems less likely.
And then, at least in certain social contexts, men are often still expected to take the lead in initiating romantic encounters with women. A conscientious and professional man of Margarets age might not feel entitled to pursue a much younger woman who was visiting his place of work. Margaret, too, has doubts about the propriety of her actions in this storybut she can (and does) give herself the excuse that shes only following Ivans lead. So gender is certainly a structuring principle of the relationship that develops in this story, but not, I think, in an entirely predictable way.
This story is drawn from an early chapter of your new novel, Intermezzo, which will be published in September. The book traces Ivan and Margarets interactions in the months after this first meeting, and those of Ivans older brother Peter, a lawyer, and two womenone is his former college girlfriend, the other is a younger woman with whom he has a somewhat transactional sexual relationship. Did you know from the outset how events would unfold? Did anything surprise you as you were writing?
As I said above, Margaret and Ivan occurred to me together, as a pair. But, shortly after I started writing about them, the whole project got stuck. I didnt know where to go next. Several months later, I suddenly realized that Ivan had a brotherand, in that moment of realization, I felt I could see the brothers entire personality, and these other important relationships in his life. Thats when the novel as such really got under way. It became a book that was very much about the sibling dynamic, as well as the various love affairs.
Continue reading here:
Sally Rooney on Characters Who Arrive Prentangled and Her Forthcoming Novel - The New Yorker