The Big Picture
For All Mankind, more often than not, maintains a spot in Apple TVs top ten original series, which comes as no surprise under the pens of creators and writers Ronald Moore, Ben Nedivi, and Matt Wolpert. As we come closer to the sci-fi series 10-episode Season 4 global debut, showrunners Nedivi and Wolpert sat down with Colliders Steve Weintraub for an extended interview to dig into how this show has evolved since the beginning and what theyre most excited for viewers to see as their alternate history reaches 2003.
The finale of Season 3 brings For All Mankind to the 21st century. Its been eight years since the rocky start to NASAs Mars base, Happy Valley. Due to circumstances, former opponents have become staunch allies, but the program now turns its attention to more pressing matters. The goal is no longer exploration for explorations sake, but harnessing asteroids and mining their valuable resources. This new development opens up opportunities for others to leave Earths orbit, as well as presents invaluable possibilities for Earth and Mars, but it also reveals tensions and greed. Previous seasons returning characters include Joel Kinnaman, Wrenn Schmidt, Krys Marshall, Edi Gathegi, Cynthy Wu, and Coral Pea. Season 4 is also introducing Toby Kebbell, Tyner Rushing, Daniel Stern, and Svetlana Efremova.
During their interview, Nedivi and Wolpert discuss how For All Mankind has been a heavily researched show as the creators are constantly reinventing their alt-history based on real-life events that shaped our societies. As we enter Season 4, the duo tells Weintraub whats being explored this season is treading more in theoretical material now as their hopes to move the series into the present day creep closer with each season finale. They talk about Kebbells Everyman character, where Edward Baldwins (Kinnaman) arc is heading, and how much they have planned in advance. They also talk about the challenges of jumping ahead in time, creating their montages and cramming them with Easter eggs, how a Humphrey Bogart Western influenced this season in the writers room, shooting in Eastern Europe, plans for Season 5, what theyre working on next, and how AI fits into For All Mankind. For all of this and if we'll be seeing the Starship in Season 5, check out the full interview in the video above or the transcript below.
COLLIDER: First of all, congrats again on Season 4. I've seen the first seven episodes, and F you for not giving me 8, 9, and 10.
BEN NEDIVI: You're welcome.
MATT WOLPERT: It's all by design.
NEDEVI: We're still doing visual effects. As you know, our last few episodes are always very big, so this season is no exception.
Yeah, I think this is what you did last time where the last episode or two just wasn't ready for send out. So where are you in post on [Episodes] 8, 9, and 10?
NEDEVI: Well, as you know, because the visual effects usually take the longest, that's the process we're still kind of finalizing and trying to get into shape. The strike kind of threw off the schedule a bit, so we're lucky we have time now to really finish it right, and music, sound, stuff like that. But we're hoping to get those out to you guys before the premiere. So, that's the hope not Episode 1, probably by the end of the year. But yeah, I think you're gonna love it.
When the strike was happening, you could not work on the show. How scared were you about the release of the show with the strike and not being able to tweak things that you might want to tweak?
WOLPERT: We were lucky enough that we had sort of finished the editing process basically by the time the strike happened. So, a lot of the heavy lifting was done. There was a bit of a concern just in terms of how long visual effects takes to get that photoreal look that's so important to our show, but our visual effects team was able to kind of keep the ball rolling, and we're lucky to be able to premiere it when we are.
I ask you this question every time we talk, might as well ask you at this time. When am I getting the Starship?
NEDEVI: Season 13 or 14, man. I don't know. It's somewhere on our timeline, but it's really deep, deep down. I mean, we're getting closer, you have to admit, every season. I mean, it's an interesting thing. I don't know why, but recently I watched a scene from Season 1, and the show has evolved so much from then. I think as you see every season, it kind of becomes more science fiction. When we started the show, so much of our research was based on real designs, real plans, like, This happened, looking at like the blueprints of the Sea Dragon. Now we've gotten to the point where all our researchers and consultants, they're arguing with each other over, Wait, is this the way it would be? It's all theoretical at this point, lot of it. I mean, we still try to maintain some tie to science, but the science we're dealing with now is science that'ssome of it's being explored right now in our current time, and some of it has not even been explored yet. So I think the show, as it continues going on, it sort of becomes more theoretical. I think that challenge is interesting. For Matt and I, I think it's really important to maintain a very grounded show, that the show feels grounded, and the further we go into the future, the harder it is to accomplish.
Listen, I think that there's this place called NASA and other space places that I am confident are all watching your show, and that's what I wanted to ask you. Have you gotten messages from Blue Origin, Jeff Bezos, Elon NASA, and people who are clearly interested in the space race and outer space emailing you?
WOLPERT: Yeah. We definitely hear, especially through Garrett Reisman, one of our technical advisors, a former astronaut, a lot of the He obviously was with NASA for a long time and then was sort of the head of the SpaceX Space Division for the manned space flight part of SpaceX's program for a long time and is still connected with that, so we hear a lot of secondhand through him. The Kelly Brothers are really into the show and stuff like that. I haven't heard anything from Bezos or Musk personally. They haven't emailed me yet, but I'm waiting. My email inbox is waiting for their messages.
Got it. Getting back to the Starship. I don't want to do spoilers, but in Season 4, going to Mars is sort of now like just flying to Boston from LA. The drama has been solved, if you will. So talk a little bit about that. Now, in Season 4, how long does it take? I think you said it is, like, 30 days from Earth to Mars, right?
WOLPERT: Right. Yeah, 30 days. And the moon, which used to take three days to get to, you can get there in less than a day. I think that was something that was really important for us; in the way that flight on the planet Earth evolved from something that was very risky to something that was very commonplace and safe, we felt like space flight would take that same trajectory and become much more commonplace and safe. There aren't all these obviously, our show is filled with a lot of space accidents for dramatic purposes, but in Season 4, it's really become commonplace, and there are monthly trips to Mars because the amount of workers on the planet has grown so much. That obviously necessitated having different types of engines with the ships, you know, plasma and ion engines, which have never been tested in space really, but are theoretically possible. Prototypes have been developed here on Earth, and that constant acceleration will just shrink the timeline. In Season 3, you had to wait two years, when Mars and Earth were sort of in the optimal position, to have the shortest transit time. Now you can launch wherever. Every month, there's another transport ship to Mars coming back and forth.
NEDEVI: Although I would say, just to put my nerd head on, 30 days is the best-case scenario. Obviously, it changes depending on when you launch and how close Earth is to Mars. I'm not gonna get into it now, but yeah, 30 days is sort of the closest window you can do.
How much do you want the show to deal with the ramifications of someone being in space for years? I'm not a scientist, but I have read or heard that if you're in outer space for years, even with gravity, it's still going to do a number on your body.
NEDEVI: Yeah. It is something that the show has sort of had to tackle more and more now that we have people up there for so much longer. I think Ed Baldwin is probably the character that most exemplifies that impact. It's something that we researched a lot about, as well, in terms of what are the impacts of living on that planet for that long. I think the biggest thing is radiation, right? That's the biggest risk. The more radiation exposure you have, obviously, the more dangerous over time. So it became interesting that the older you are, though, the less of a risk really, in a way not less of a risk of radiation, but less of a risk of lifespan to have to deal with that. So I think it's something where, I don't want to spoil anything, but in the construction of the base, it's something we also took into question, like, Well, how do you limit radiation? How do you limit the exposure as much as possible is a big thing. Then physically, in terms of movement, it's also something that as you get older, it may be in certain ways easier to be on Mars than on Earth because the pressure of gravity is less. So for someone like Ed Baldwin, who's older, I think if he were on Earth, it would be a lot harder on him to walk around than it is on Mars. There's the pros and cons of living, I think, in that kind of environment.
Yeah, I could go real geeky and say, are they building with UV bounce in the ceiling? All that stuff. But what do you guys actually want to tease fans about Season 4 that is not in the trailer or in the trailer?
WOLPERT: What was most exciting to us to delve into in Season 4 in a way that we had not yet in the previous seasons is this idea of who gets to go to space. In the first three seasons, and in our real timeline, really, almost everyone that has gone to space has been a pilot or a scientist, an engineer, people that have trained their whole lives for that purpose. We felt like in the evolution of our show and the idea of mining for resources on planets and these large-scale building projects, you wouldn't just be bringing pilots and scientists and engineers, you'd be bringing construction workers and miners and people that have a different skill set that space is not necessarily their natural habitat if you will. So that was really interesting to bring in charactersMiles Dale, Samantha, and some other people that you meet as the season goes onwho are sort of normal people who are just looking to make a living, support their families, advance their careers. It's more of a sort of a blue-collar element, whereas there's the sort of rarified air of the astronauts and cosmonauts, and that dynamic, how those people interact together, we find really interesting.
Every season, you've talked about how you had a road map that you came up with a while ago that you were sort of walking down. How far have you thought about the road map, and are we starting to get to a place where the road map is no longer written?
NEDEVI: We had a very ambitious road map, I would say. Early on, we planned this out over six or seven seasons, so we're still on the road map, and I'm proud to say that we've stuck to, I think, the big goalposts we've had so far. Obviously, there are changes every season, and we leave the writers and the writers room flexibility to go off the map if we have to or make changes. But right now, I mean, we're sort of past the halfway point in a way, you know, and it's fascinating. As in most TV shows, in the beginning, you dream of like, Oh, I see this big arc As ambitious as we were, I don't think at that moment we really felt we were like, Oh, yeah, for sure. Let's talk about what's gonna happen in Season 6 of the show, but here we are premiering Season 4.
It's incredible to see the opportunity we've had not only to show how the show is advanced, and technology is advanced on the show, but how these characters have evolved that now you're seeing their children, and even their children's children. That opportunity makes the show really unique, and I think the hope is to be able to take that story all the way to the present time. I think that was always, for me, a goal of how amazing it would be to get to the present of our alt-history and kind of see how different the world could have been. I think that that's something were really looking forward to.
This is me spitballing, and pardon me as I say this, but is it possible that For All Mankind goes six or seven seasons with your original plan, then there is a spinoff show that goes, like, 200 years later where all of a sudden it becomes a version of Star Trek, and youve glossed over how you got to the warp engine if you will, but somehow in those 200 years you did, and all of a sudden, Ron Moore is now, Oh, yeah
WOLPERT: [Laughs] Apple, are you listening?
NEDEVI: Steves got a pitch.
WOLPERT: I mean, look, that that's what's cool about this universe is that it's kind of like there are so many different possibilities, so many ways you could go, so many different stories you can tell within this universe of For All Mankind. We really, from that butterfly moment of the Soviets beating us to the moon, the way we view it is it's a whole new universe that keeps getting more and more different. So it's really blue skies, I think, in terms of the potential for the storytelling going forward.
I only say this because I know the way contracts work, and after seven seasons, if you want to go to anotherit's a whole mess of a thing. So that's why I was saying For All Mankind is the prequel show to whatever the Star Trek show is, right?
NEDEVI: Right. I love it. [Laughs] I think right now we're just focusing on, Let's get Season 5 launched.
I'm messing with you, but Im just thinking about these things.
NEDEVI: No, listen, we're ambitious. We definitely are hungry to tell more of this story, and we think, like Matt said, there's an opportunity with this show that we built a unique world and I think the key to that, to however far we go, is how do you keep it grounded? I think that was what was always so fascinating to us about this concept was, yes, it's sci-fi, but we want it to feel very grounded sci-fi. I think the struggle of jumping that much in time is how do you still maintain the tone and the feel of For All Mankind if you were to do something like that. I think that's something we're facing right now, even with Season 4. A lot of it comes back to how would it truly feel to build a colony on Mars. What would be the actual issues you'd have to deal with, the moral dilemmas? That's what goes into our thinking with the show and something we really try to hold on to even if we're getting further and further into the alt-history.
I always look at the Apple top 10 to see what's in there, and For All Mankind is in there a lot. It's mostly always in the top 10. Has Apple told you, We're really happy? Does Tim Cook watch the show or any executives because that will help keep it on the air?
WOLPERT: We've heard nothing but really positive things from Apple and how the show is doing for them. I think they're really happy both with how it's doing in terms of viewers and how it's doing creatively. I don't know necessarily which people are watching it or not, or which ones are on the top of their list, but everybody seems really happy with it.
NEDEVI: We've heard we have fans in Cupertino. [Laughs]
WOLPERT: Yes, thats true.
I've said this many times, I think Apple, I'll say it straight up, they are making the best sci-fi that's on television right now. Between your show and Silo, Foundation, Monarch, which is coming out soon, everything they're doing sci-fi related is fantastic.
WOLPERT: Yeah, I agree. I think that the quality level of Apple overall is really strong. You just can tell that there's a level of thought behind their shows. We've felt in working with them that there's a high expectation level for what they put on the air.
What shot or sequence in the four seasons was the backbreaker, where you wrote it but didn't realize what it was actually gonna entail?
WOLPERT: Thats a good question. There are so many. [Laughs]
NEDEVI: I feel like we deal with that every season. I will say even in this first episode of Season 4, there's a sequence in the middle that was very challenging. When you watch it, you will know what sequence I'm talking about. Our stunt team is unbelievable. So, we in the room come up with these insane ideas every season and I think because we see they can pull it off, we go crazier and crazier every season, I feel like, in terms of what we want to accomplish. I think a big thing for us is not to repeat ourselves, so a lot of the action sequences this year are very challenging. They were very challenging. I think they challenged our crew more than any other season before, but we really pulled it off. The actors being able to put themselves in the harnesses and put themselves through that in these huge bulky suits is not easy.
But I think, for me, that scene in the middle of Episode 4 was incredibly challenging and something we worked on. I mean, the visual effects there are something we worked on for a while, too, to really get that right. So the key is, with everything like that, you never wanna think beyond the scene and the action and the drama of the moment, but what goes behind that is so much stunt work, so much visual effects, so much acting that you really need to pull something complicated like that off. And that's just one episode. I mean, you could look at this first episode and go, It's a huge action movie, and then we've got nine more to go. So I think for us it was great, on one hand, in the writers room when we had this concept. It was like, Oh my god, this is gonna be amazing, but then pulling it off was a real challenge.
I'm curious if I can ask about the writing. How much are you in your mind saying, Well, look, every season, first episode, we gotta make sure we have some action thing in it to hook people back in? Then in the finale, we have to have some sort of big action thing? How much is that in your writing process because you also only have so much money to spend that you can only do sequences like that at certain points in the season? So how much is it, The first episode and the last episode are gonna get money, and then we're gonna do one other one, maybe Episode 5, or whatever it might be? Or does that not enter the brain?
WOLPERT: It does to a certain degree. We always think about how can we sort of grab people at the beginning. It doesn't have to necessarily be a big action set piece per se, but we really want to kind of plant our flag on what type of season this is gonna be and really have something emotional happen and something dramatic that tees up the season in a big way. Then, the way we tell stories tends to build to a climax. But on the flip side of that, we are always constantly aware of the audience's expectations. So, if our show is falling into an expectation of, Well, we know in the first and the last episode it's gonna be big action set piece, and then everything in the middle is nothing, its just character work and drama, we wanna try to find ways to undermine that or take you in a way you're not gonna expect to go. So it's always a balance between those things, but we're definitely thinking about it all the time.
How big is the writers room on this series, and how much has it changed? How many people have been there besides you two since the beginning who are still writing on it?
NEDEVI: We've been fortunate to have some people with us from the beginning, but as the show has evolved, so has the writers room. I think we've brought in new people as the show has gone on. I think it's sort of an interesting metaphor for the show itself, right? Like, as the show grows, we want to bring in new voices, and those voices have helped tell these new stories as we've gone on. So, even just like our cast and crew, there are people that have been with us since the beginning, us old timers, and then there are people who are kind of coming in to freshen things up.
But the room, I think, right now, we're at about, man, I wanna say about eight writers, right? It was interesting, we kind of had to do the Zoom Room thing last season, which is also not the most fun thing in the world because you lose those little moments. But I think because we have such a good relationship with the writers and we know each other so well because we've done this for so long, there's a shorthand where I think the Zoom isn't as [big of an] impact as it would be on another show. We kind of know the show, we know the tone, and we know each other. So, it's honestly a lot of fun to kind of get back in the room with everyone and work things out.
What is it like on the first day? For example, Season 4, it's the first day of the writers room, I guess you're doing a Zoom thing, what is it actually like that day? How much does the staff know about your overall vision of the show, the six or seven-season plan?
WOLPERT: They definitely know the vision. When we used to meet in person, around the room, there was like a timeline laying out a lot of the events. It was a huge writers room in terms of space, and it went all the way around just because we mapped it out so long. Now, it's just on a screen. What a lot of times will happen is Ben and I will take the morning to lay out a lot of the things we've already thought about prior to the room and lay out some story arcs that we're thinking of and some new characters we wanna try to bring in. It's a lot of talk about themes we wanna touch on, how we see the world of the show evolving, if we've had any thoughts about major life events that may have happened in characters lives between seasons, but it's always kind of a jumping-off point.
Nothing is set in stone because we really feel it's important to have the first few weeks of the room be like a blue skies, anything is possible, best idea wins kind of free-for-all all of just a fun discussion. There's a lot of storylines we go down for a couple of days that wind up not coming to fruition at all, but that's not really wasted time because you're still getting to know these characters again, and you're kind of getting to wrap your mind around where they are at in their lives. Because we think so much in-depth about the characters' lives and the world, I think that trickles down into the episodes later. A lot of that work we do early on.
How many of the scripts do you normally have done before you start filming?
WOLPERT: Oh man, in the beginning, we always planned to have all of them done before we start, and that never happens.
NEDEVI: Yeah, the goal is always to have as many as possible so you're not writing while you're shooting. That goal, on every TV show we've ever worked on, that's always the goal, and I don't think it ever happens that you have every script before you start shooting. Usually, it ends up being, in some version, Matt or I on set in the back corner in the dark room with a laptop, hunched up working on a script towards the end of the season. It happens every season. When we start a new season, we're like, How do we avoid that? What can we do to avoid being in that situation? And literally, the same thing happens every year. So I don't know if it's a TV thing where, you know, you use the time you have. Maybe that's kind of what it is as a writer, but it's something we try to improve on every year.
So Season 4, you gave it away in the poster, is about mining an asteroid. Was this in the original six/seven-year plan that we'd eventually get to an asteroid and we'd mine it?
WOLPERT: Definitely. We have always been interested in the idea, not only of mining asteroids but the idea of harnessing and moving asteroids, which is such a mind-blowing concept that there's actually been a lot of thought and theories bandied about how you might do that. So from Season 1, we knew that we wanted to kind of head in that direction because, mainly, we've always wanted to ground space travel, and it's not just about exploration because exploration only gets you so far. A lot of the roots behind exploration are for resources; you're exploring things to find resources, and the asteroid belt is the gold mine of the solar system. There is so much valuable stuff in them thar hills over there.
We've been intrigued by this idea of, as the space exploration expands and it becomes more about, like, Wow, these resources that are just so rare on Earth but are abundant in space, how would that impact how people behave and how countries behave to each other and what's the new race for those? That becomes what the space race is, is the race for resources and for riches. So we talked a lot in the room about The Treasure of the Sierra Madre and a lot of Westerns where this idea of how greed and competition for wealth can impact human beings.
Season 4 opens with another montage, which I know you guys both love and dread putting together. So, what do you want to tease people about that montage? Are there any shots that go by really fast that you should keep an eye out for?
NEDEVI: Oh, you know we have those. [Laughs] It's interesting, this year's montage, because I was noticing how much of the montage is now alt-history. I think in the past, we used the montage as a way, like we do the music, to kind of settle you in the era in that year, whereas this year, I felt so much of it was alt-history, and it really showed how much the butterfly effect had impacted our world. So, the moments of actual history are few and far between, and maybe moments that we felt would stand out in ways that we think would be funny and entertaining. But it's interesting that, even as a montage piece, it doesn't only set the table, there are story points in there that set up the season, you know. So I think when you talk about those little moments, I do think it's the kind of thing you wanna watch in real time, and then later, if you have the time and the wherewithal, it would be worth your while to look through slowly, because there are little Easter eggs throughout.
And yeah, like you said, I always feel when we make this thing, it's a mini-documentary we're doing on the side of For All Mankind. We're literally doing it as we're shooting the show and writing the show, like there's this thing continuing on, and the legal process I mean, it's such a collaborative and complex process, but in the end, we're really happy with this one. I think this year's is probably the best one so far.
What ends up being the most challenging part of making the show that fans might not expect?
WOLPERT: For me personally, it's the news reports because so much thought has to go into the writing of the news reports, but also building out the world. A lot of those bonus reports that are done, the yearly news reports that are aired before the season, so much thought goes into the alternate history of that and then the writing of that that Ben and I joke all the time about how our dream is to write a cop procedural where you don't have to think about what happened in Germany in, you know, 1998 and just all these things that we have to put our brain power into. That's fun, but it's also very challenging. And as a writer, there's a special cadence to writing for a news anchor that it's very easy to not feel real. So that's something that I think is challenging in a way that maybe is not as glamorous as some of the other stuff that's challenging.
What do you want to tease people about Toby Kebbells role in Season 4 and his character's journey?
NEDEVI: This was the big new character of this season. I think for us, like Matt said earlier, a lot of it was how do we capture the idea of the Everyman, someone who is struggling on Earth to make a living where there is opportunity now in Mars in our alt-history to help support his family? So I feel like Toby, when we cast him, we have been a fan of his for years from his previous work. He has this ability to really just become the character in a way that is uncanny. He really took on this role in a way that embraced not only the struggles of the guy in the beginning but then seeing his wonder and going up to this new world. So, to me, it always felt like the possibility of having that perspective, a different perspective, for the first time on this show of someone going to Mars not to do research, not to explore, but to make a living.
I think that that's the thing that I think I'm most excited about this season, really, is both Toby but you have all these other characters who are up there to make a living for their families back home, which really tells you about how much space travel has changed, how much it's become normalized in a way. I think, really, a dividing point of this show right now of where we're headed is more in a world where because space travel is more normalized, not only the kinds of people that go, but what they're doing when they go up there. I think being away from his family, but also having to learn the rules of the game up there is one of the central arcs of the season.
Look, I think the other nature of the show is that we bring in new faces every season, right? We have some of our old cast remaining, and just like we brought in Dev Ayes with Edi Gathegi last season, I think Toby came into play this role for the show to continue the ideas that we'll be bringing in these new faces every season while keeping some of our previous characters from previous seasons. So it's not such a huge change from season to season. You're seeing kind of the slower baton pass of the show happen.
One of the things about the show is you don't introduce people that quickly. He's a really talented actor, so my question is when you're casting someone like this, and I don't want to say anything about his journey through the seven episodes I've seen, but you are introducing new things to For All Mankind involving his character, and it could be an arc that goes for a long time because ofthings. [Laughs] I can't say it. Is it safe to assume that Toby is not a one-season character, and that this is a bigger thing that you're introducing to outer space?
NEDEVI: Spoiler alert. [Laughs]
WOLPERT: I would say that we definitely approached that character with the point of view of wanting them to be a multi-season character and Miles to kind of be a new presence that grows with the Mars colony. I think when we were casting, one of the things we were really looking for was versatility and breadth of experience as an actor, that they've played different types of roles because people evolve and change. I think what's great about Toby is that he's played, like, if you look at his character in that Black Mirror episode, which is fantastic, versus RocknRolla or some of the other things, he's played so many different types of characters, or in Servant, that we knew he had that breadth of ability to tell the longer arc of Miles Dale as a character.
I don't wanna get into specifics, but it's cool because it's a completely different side of For All Mankind that is being introduced to the series. With Edward Baldwin, how old is he in Season 4?
NEDEVI: [Laughs] How old do you think he is in Season 4? No, I think right now he's in his early 70s. I don't like to say a specific number because then people jump all over the number, but I have to give Joel Kinnaman credit this season that he embraced fully the aging process in a way that Matt and I really appreciated. He not only is sitting in a makeup chair for four or five hours a day putting on prosthetics, so he'd be there like two or three in the morning on a work day putting on the prosthetics, but then, the way he moved. I think the things people don't appreciate as much, and maybe they're starting to, is the way he moves, the voice, the little things. He lost 30 pounds of muscle this season for this role, so you talk about an actor who commits to the part. There's no one like him in my view in terms of really being able to take on the aging and embracing it. I think Wrenn Schmidt is another one. She fully takes it on. She understood from early on, if we're gonna tell the story of someone's lifetime, then you have to show that process of aging happening.
Sometimes we get lost a little bit in what is their age and what is the number and how old are they? For us, more than anything, it's about change, right? It's about evolution. The idea of, if you look at Ed Baldwin in Season 1 and Ed Baldwin in Season 4, you understand how much that guy has changed and aged. I think the real tell is when you meet our actors in real life, which happens, a lot of people are always thrown by how young they look. I think that's a testament to our makeup team that they do the kind of makeup that sometimes it's subtle. Sometimes, it's like where we put a wrinkle. I can't even tell you how much time we put into, like, Where is that wrinkle, and where do we put the aging spots and what are the age spots? It's a whole other side For All Mankind that's happening all the time, and really, it is quite challenging, and the actors, we're thankful that we have the actors that embrace it. They embrace it fully.
Obviously, if he's in his 70s, he still has possible time, but are we nearing the end of the Edward Baldwin arc of For All Mankind, or is he someone who could survive into being 100 or 110?
NEDEVI: We can't answer that. Come on, Steve. [Laughs] There's no way we're answering that.
WOLPERT: You never know what space can do. It's untested waters. Who knows what impact on longevity space might have?
Sure, I won't pressure. Ive gotta go for some curveballs. So showrunners tell me that every season of a show, they get to build a new set or they get to build a little bit of some new stuff. What did you get to build in Season 4 that you can tease people?
WOLPERT: Well, the irony of our show is that it's almost like a new show every year. We have, I think more than any other show probably, a reset of the sets because they were always evolving and going to new places. So, the really exciting thing this season is to see how those few small rooms that were the Mars base of Happy Valley in Season 3, that we left those people stranded in on Mars, how that's become a really thriving Mars base with hundreds of people living and working there. That process of building those sets and figuring out, Well, how would all these people live together? Would it all be on the surface? Would there be something that isn't on the surface? What rooms would the Russians have built versus what Americans have built versus SpaceX Helios having built? [Laughs] Whoops, Freudian slip. So, that was really fun to see, like, Well, what would the aesthetic differences be? There's a particular module in the Mars base that's sort of the Soviet contribution to the expansion of the base that's kind of their ops com room. It was fun to explore how would Soviet architecture and design have changed the look of what is essentially a technical space.
Is there anything that you wanted to do on the show that you've not been able to because of just budgetary reasons? Like you had an idea or an arc that you're like, This would be amazing, and we definitely don't have the money?
NEDEVI: No. [Laughs] I have to say, this is probably why we've aged so much through this process of the show. It's a very challenging show. But I think the big ideas we've had, we have been able to accomplish. Even this season, you know, yes, there's always little story arcs or little things we wanted to do that we can't do, but sometimes those budgetary limitations end up with the most creative solutions in terms of storytelling. So I think our philosophy as we go into the room is anything goes, let's go big, and then we'll figure out how to do it. I think it's a testament to our crew and our line producer that we're able to accomplish those things.
The big thing this season that was very new for us was shooting in Eastern Europe. We wanted to capture Margo's experience in Russia, and we felt that you cannot do that in Los Angeles. So for us it was a very big change for the show to, at the end of the season, go find a location in Eastern Europe that could fill in for alt-history Soviet Union of the era and do it. We brought in some of our crew, some of our cast, but most of it is all new people who've never worked on the show before. It was quite a change for us. It was quite a challenge, but I think that answers your question about it; we felt we had to figure out a way to make that happen. There were challenges in doing it, but now, looking at Season 4, I'm so thrilled that we were able to go there and pull that off because it really does feel like a new world on the show going there.
Well, especially, and again, no spoilers, but you're in buildings that clearly are not in Los Angeles. I was actually wondering about that. How long did you actually get to film in Eastern Europe? How long was that location filming?
WOLPERT: It was, I think, almost a month of shooting, a little shorter than a month. In February, obviously, there's snow everywhere, it looks freezing because it was freezing. But you're right, it was very important to us to shoot on location in these places that you just cannot replicate, and not only the buildings but the actors. You just have access to a whole different type of actor that looks and feels of that place and time. It really brings, again, this sense of grounded realism to those moments that are really important to the show.
Absolutely. As I was watching it, I'm like, Wait, what? Because it was clearly not LA. So, at some point, this series is gonna end. I'll be upset, but I wanna know, have you asked Apple and been like, Hey, if this is the last season, can you tell us so we can do an ending like we want to end it? Have you had that conversation with them? It would be weird to end on a cliffhanger of Season 4 and then not have any sort of resolution.
NEDEVI: I agree. It's something that I don't love in shows I watch. We haven't had that conversation because, to be honest, Apple has been very supportive of the show and very supportive of the original pitch we had of going that distance. We've been fortunate that the show has been received well by fans of people who watch Apple, people who don't watch Apple, and clearly, more and more people have caught on to the show over the seasons. So I think as long as people watch it, we'll be able to continue and finish the story we wanna tell. All we've heard from Apple is positive support and reinforcing the idea that they also want us to finish this arc. So I don't want to think negative thoughts of not being able to do that, you know? But that's really, for us, always been the goal: let us get to the end of this, let's tell the story as we intended.
Do you guys actually have the end of the arc that you're trying to say already figured out, like the last shot or the last thing, or do you sort of just have an idea of where you're going?
WOLPERT: We have some ideas of shots and moments that, whether they wind up actually the last shot or moment, remains to be seen because you never know what's gonna change. But we've definitely thought through to a fairly specific degree how to bring it to a close.
Obviously, the writers strike happened, everyone knows, and the actors are still on strike, but before the strike happened on July 1st, how much have you guys been working on the writing of Season 5?
NEDEVI: [Laughs] You're so clever in how you do that. I gotta give you credit. You, like, slide it in.
Listen, I don't know if you know this, I've been doing Collider for 18 years, and I've done an awful lot of interviews.
NEDEVI: We have not officially gotten a Season 5 pickup. We do want Apple to talk to our agent-manager, Steve Weintraub, so that we can get that process started as soon as possible, sir.
[Laughs] Listen, sir, I am well aware that they have not announced Season 5, but I'm also aware that all the streamers have writers rooms that usually go as soon as the previous season ends, just in case they want to do the next season. It expedites the process. It's how you guys have been able to put a show on basically every year.
NEDEVI: It's interesting because I think the difference this year, because of the writers strike, we weren't able to do that. So we weren't able to start a room for Season 5. I think you're right, that's usually how it works on a show like ours, where you would have to start the room before the next season premieres. I think this is the first time in the history of the show where the show is premiering without us really starting a room for Season 5. So not only do we not have an official pickup, we haven't even started the room yet. In a way, I think that's because of the strike. I think we had to hold off, and I think it was the right move, and hopefully, we can get that pickup and continue to tell the story.
One of the problems with streaming is that often you have a very big gap between seasons, and it really, really destroys the momentum of a show. I'm not sure about you guys, but when it's been two-and-a-half years since I saw the last season, I don't care as much. I'm just not as invested. One of the secrets of For All Mankind is it's been almost every year that there's a season, so you just keep on, you know? You're so invested. So, I guess my question is if Apple calls you and says, Hey, we want to do Season 5, how long does a writers room typically take? If they called you and said, Let's set this up, is it like four or five months of writing before you can be filming? Is it longer? What is that kind of timeframe?
WOLPERT: Yeah, it's about that. But actually, the real hurdle to our show in particular, and shows like it, is the visual effects process. The visual effects take so long to do, and the reason they look so good is because they take so long to make.
NEDEVI: To do it right, yeah.
WOLPERT: To do it right. So, our line producer, Seth EdelsteinI don't remember which season this wasafter we finished shooting our show, he produced Hacks, and that show aired before our show, but they shot it after our show because they don't have all the visual effects to do. So it's kind of baked into the show on a certain level. I agree with you that the amount of time between a shows seasons airing can impact how much people are engaged. Know that Ben and I are doing everything we can to make that as small as possible within the limitations of what it takes to make our show because we also want it to be as good as every other season has been in terms of the level of the visual effects and the storytelling and how it's shot.
I totally understand. I think that in this particular instance, with the strikes, every show, every single thing from movies to television, is gonna be impacted by six months. So no one has a cheat code to get past this. My feeling is, okay, it's the end of October as we talk; God willing, you know, the SAG strike ends, and you can be, God willing, filming in April. This is just a guesstimate. If you happen to get a Season 5 pickupplease, AppleI mean, there's no way it'll be on until 2025. There's physically no way.
NEDEVI: Look, the thing that happened with the strike was necessary. It had to happen, and there are consequences of those things, you know? So, I think you're right; it affected almost every show, and I think audiences now are a little more forgiving. I think people are a little more engaged now. They know what happened with the writers strike and the SAG strike. I think there's an understanding now that there will be delays on certain shows not coming back as quickly as they did, that it won't be the same. So, I think in this next year, I think people understand why there are those delays.
But to me, the key is, especially with our show, you can always go back and watch the last season, catch up, right? Rewatch Season 3. I mean, that's the thing, our show is almost like an anthology in that way where you can see the past seasons again before the next season shows up. There's a lot of TV out there right now, so I think that opportunity is there. I hope that our delay isn't as big as some of these other shows. We actually pride ourselves on having as small a window between seasons as possible, but some of these delays on other shows that are really huge are getting longer and longer. So I agree with you. It's a problem, but it's kind of a first-world problem.
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'For All Mankind' Creators Tease Season 4 as the Show Becomes ... - Collider