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Former Vice President Mike Pence had one of the best views possible of former President Donald Trumps attempt to reverse the results of the 2020 election. Since leaving office, despite writing a whole memoir about his time serving under Trump, hes been reticent to present the full, unvarnished tale.

That changed on Thursday, when Pence finally appeared before a federal grand jury to answer questions related to special counsel Jack Smiths investigation into Trumps schemes. It wasnt easy to get Pence to testify. The likely 2024 presidential candidate has repeatedly implied to Republican voters how little he wants to turn on his former boss, even as he hopes that they support someone else next year. But at this point, its in Pences best interest to root that Smiths investigation holds Trump to account.

Like most Republicans, Pence has chosen Trump rather than take the many, many off-ramps available over the years. When Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg handed down an indictment of Trump last month, Pence was quick to join the chorus of GOP officials denouncing it as a politically charged prosecution. And despite ostensibly competing against him to win the White House next year, Pence has been reluctant to directly attack the former president.

Pence has done a better job of distancing himself from Trump over the lead-up to the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol understandably so given that he was a focus of the attackers ire. But hes also gone to great lengths to avoid saying anything too critical of Trumps final days in office. In a 2021 speech at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, he said that theres almost no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president. Last year in a speech to the Federalist Society, he went as far as to say President Trump is wrong to believe that the vice president could unilaterally overturn the election or send it back to the states.

But those words are not the same as cooperating in the efforts to investigate just how far Trump was willing to go to remain in office. For example, Pence shot down efforts to have him appear before the House Jan. 6 committee. I never stood in the way of senior members of my team cooperating with the committee and testifying, but Congress has no right to my testimony, he told CBS News in November.

And when Smith subpoenaed Pence in February, the former vice president made a great show of trying to avoid testifying. He and his lawyers argued that as president of the Senate during the insurrection, he was protected from being forced to testify under the speech and debate clause of the Constitution, a novel use of the vice presidencys historical weirdness.

Surprisingly, a federal judge agreed with him in part. Judge James Boasberg ruled that Pence could avoid testifying about his actions as the head of the Senate, but would still have to spill the tea about any potential illegality on Trumps part. Well obey the law, well tell the truth, Pence told CBS News last week in response, opting to forgo the appeals process. Though Trumps lawyers filed their own appeal, arguing (yet again) that executive privilege should override the Justice Departments investigation, a federal appeals court rejected that theory on Wednesday and cleared the way for Pences appearance before the grand jury.

In rejecting his and Trumps arguments, the courts gave Pence exactly what other former lackeys have sought: plausible deniability. When confronted about his cooperation on the campaign trail, the losses in court allow Pence to argue that his hands were tied. It cant count as a treachery if a judge has ordered you to speak is the exact kind of escape hatch that comes in handy regarding Trump and his still rabid support among the GOP base.

We still dont know exactly what Pence told the grand jury under oath during the hours of questioning from Smiths team. But its doubtful that whatever information he provided or corroborated is exculpatory for Trump. And while theres no guarantee that an indictment or even a conviction from Smith would knock Trump out of the running, Pence has done everything he can to keep from getting blamed if thats the case.

Immediately before the Jan. 6 attack, Trump lambasted Pence to his followers and did nothing to ensure his safety once the Capitol was breached. Pence, as a devout Christian, would surely deny wanting any sort of revenge for that betrayal if asked. He likely would also want to assure Trump supporters that hes, at most, neutral about any outcome that Smith reaches. But its entirely in Pences best interest now to cheer on the Justice Department under his breath.

Hayes Brown is a writer and editor for MSNBC Daily.

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Pence should side with Jack Smith over Trump in Jan. 6 probe - MSNBC

Former Vice President Mike Pence, seemingly in his element as he addressed a gathering of evangelical Christians in Iowa this month, was speaking of the greatest honor of my life, serving in an administration that turned this country around by rebuilding the military, securing the southern border, and unleashing American energy.

But most importantly, most of all, he said, building to a crescendo but at the moment he was about to claim some credit for his administrations success in overturning the right to an abortion, a booming voice came over the loudspeaker from the sound booth: Check, check, testing, 1-2-3.

It was a small interruption, but one that exemplified the diversions Mr. Pence continues to face as he considers a run for the Republican presidential nomination against the man who was once his greatest benefactor, but also his cruelest tormentor: Donald J. Trump.

On Thursday, however, Mr. Pence faced a much more onerous and grueling intrusion into his potential campaign, and one that he had hoped to avoid, when he was forced to testify for more than five hours before a grand jury in Washington about Mr. Trumps efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Those efforts put Mr. Pences life at risk on Jan. 6, 2021, as a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol, chanting Hang Mike Pence.

Mr. Pence, the would-be candidate with unassailable religious convictions who spent four years a heartbeat away from the presidency, cannot seem to find the space to present those credentials to sympathetic Republican primary voters without interruption and, in this case, on the biggest stage before a campaign has even begun.

After Thursdays testimony, a highly unusual event involving two of the most prominent U.S. public officials during a nascent presidential campaign in which both are likely to run, he is in the odd and uncomfortable position of being both a potential challenger to his former boss and possibly a key witness for his prosecution.

Mr. Pence knows that core voters in the Republican base are in no mood to give such legal proceedings against Mr. Trump, including the current civil suit accusing him of rape and defamation, much credence. Paula Livingston, of Council Bluffs, Iowa, waved off the cases pending against Mr. Trump as all the same, theyre out to stop him.

Nor is Mr. Trump showing any signs of contrition. On Thursday, while campaigning in New Hampshire, the former president embraced a supporter who had served prison time for her actions during the Capitol attack of Jan. 6, and called her terrific, even though she said she wants Mr. Pence executed for treason.

But after the former vice presidents efforts to quash the Justice Departments subpoena for his testimony failed, Mr. Pence had little choice but to lend his voice to the federal prosecution.

The Pence camp is now working to put that testimony within the broader rubric of his potential presidential run: Conservative truth teller. Pence loyalists would like Mr. Pence to be getting more credit for the Trump administrations successes, especially for helping to choose the nominees that tilted the Supreme Court to the right.

But Mr. Pence has to play the hand that he has been dealt, and right now that includes testifying against Mr. Trump.

I dont know if he has to dislodge Mr. Trump, Marc Short, a former chief of staff to the vice president, said. He has to remind voters who he is.

Over his 12 years in Congress, as governor of Indiana and in the Trump White House, Mr. Pence was the consistent conservative, Mr. Short said, working for a man who was anything but consistent: Thats an important contrast for him to draw, Mr. Short said.

A Republican close to the former vice president, who requested anonymity in order to discuss internal deliberations, explained on Friday that Mr. Pence has long stuck with conservative constitutional principles, even when that has meant standing up to his party.

As a House member, he chastised the administration of President George W. Bush for its failure to adhere to fiscal discipline as federal budget surpluses turned to large deficits. He has embraced changes to Social Security and Medicarethat would trim benefits in the name of balancing the budget, changes that Mr. Trump has loudly rejected.

He continues to publicly make the case for U.S. military aid to Ukraine, even as some Republican lawmakers and many Republican voters turn against it. He has said Florida Gov. Ron DeSantiss fight with the Walt Disney Company over social policy has strayed, and become a violation of the Republican Partys bedrock belief in free enterprise.

And he leaned on constitutional arguments, first to avoid the subpoena of federal prosecutors investigating efforts to overturn the 2020 election, and now to comply with it. Earlier this year Mr. Pence argued that the Constitutions speech or debate clause, intended to protect the separation of powers between the three branches of government, shielded him from having to speak of Mr. Trumps campaign to pressure him not to certify the election results in his ceremonial role as vice president.

When that failed, he complied with the subpoena rather than search for another rationale for delay, such as the executive privilege claims that have been repeatedly rejected.

Mr. Pence, in his recent book So Help Me God, described in detail Mr. Trumps efforts to pressure him into blocking congressional certification of President Bidens victory. Mr. Trump became preoccupied with the idea that Mr. Pence could do something, though Mr. Pences chief lawyer had concluded that there was no legal authority for him to act on Mr. Trumps behalf.

But people close to Mr. Pence said that just as he argued that he had to fulfill his constitutional duty on Jan. 6, 2021, he invoked that same Constitution the following day to reject overtures from Democratic leaders to use the Constitutions 25th amendment to remove Mr. Trump from office.

Aides to Mr. Pence showed little worry this week as the former vice president continues his deliberations about a run. Mr. Pences attitude, they said, is simple: Let the chips fall where they may.

He feels remarkably blessed to have been able to serve the American people in the roles he has had, Mr. Short said, and he hopes to continue that service.

Continued here:
Campaign, Interrupted: Pence May Run, but He Can't Hide From Trump's Legal Woes - The New York Times

16.00EDTClosing summary

North Carolinas supreme court handed down a ruling that paves the way for partisan gerrymandering in the state, which its GOP-controlled legislature is expected to use to oust four Democratic House lawmakers. Meanwhile, special counsel Jack Smiths investigation of Donald Trump continues, with former vice-president Mike Pence appearing before his grand jury yesterday.

Heres what else happened today:

Samuel Alito, author of the supreme court opinion overturning Roe v Wade, said a leak of the decisions draft put conservative justices in danger.

Ron DeSantis is facing a reckoning over his actions while deployed at the Guantnamo prison camp, but does not like being asked about it.

An investigation into allegations of misconduct by Brett Kavanaugh prior to his supreme court confirmation contained omissions, a Guardian investigation has found.

Republican lawmakers nationwide are accusing their opponents of inciting insurrections, even when their actions dont fit the definition of the word.

The White House was not pleased with Axios, after a report from the outlet detailing concerns about Bidens age.

Updated at 16.00EDT

South Carolinas abortion ban was defeated in part due to a revolt by female Republican senators, who joined with Democrats to vote down the proposal.

One of those lawmakers, Sandy Senn, spoke to MSNBC about what motivated her stand:

"I'm not going to vote in a way that's going to oppress women simply because the party might want me to pander to them."

South Carolina State Rep. Sandy Senn (R) defends joining Democrats to vote down a near-total abortion ban Thursday in the legislature pic.twitter.com/5igAVMyrCz

Updated at 15.58EDT

Democrats have a tough order next year. They will need to defend their control of the White House and majority in the Senate, and try to retake the House. The Guardians Martin Pengelly has more details on how Joe Biden plans to deploy vice-president Kamala Harris to to win a second term:

As Joe Biden seeks to conquer public concern he is too old to run for and complete a second term in office, the White House is reportedly planning to boost support for Bidens vice-president, Kamala Harris, in the face of increasing Republican attacks.

An unnamed source familiar with conversations inside the White House told NBC News: They need her to be strong. They know she is a target, and the attacks have always been intense, and the ante is going to be upped. So they want to make sure she is on the best possible footing.

An unnamed Democratic strategist, meanwhile, pointed to Bidens eight years as vice-president to Barack Obama.

Updated at 15.35EDT

Roe v Wade was overturned after Donald Trump appointed three conservative justices to the supreme court, which he was able to do because Republicans controlled the Senate. And Republicans gained control of the Senate by spending the 2010s ousting Democrats from their seats, as states once friendly to the party turned against them.

One of the last Democratic senators hanging on in a red state is West Virgnias Joe Manchin. He is up for re-election next year in a contest that could decide Senate control, and while he hasnt said if he will seek a third full term, he gained a new challenger this week.

The Republican governor Jim Justice announced his candidacy alongside his pet, Babydog. The English Bulldog was right next to him in a public event to kick off his campaign, and in a Fox News interview:

Gov. Jim Justice (R-WV), with Babydog seated next to him, reacts to Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) saying I will win any race I enter after Justice announced a run for his seat:

I welcome Joe Manchin to come into the race But, at the end of the day, I think well be OK. pic.twitter.com/00htCIAp0h

Updated at 15.24EDT

By overturning Roe v Wade, Samuel Alito and other conservative supreme court justices allowed states to ban the procedure, and some Republican-led governments already have. But the Associated Press reports that such efforts have faced surprising headwinds in some Republican jurisdictions:

Abortion rights campaigners won notable victories in Nebraska and South Carolina on Thursday, blocking a six-week ban in the first state and a near-total ban in the second.

In Lincoln, Nebraska, a vote to end debate so the bill could advance failed by one vote. Cheers erupted as opponents of the bill waved signs and chanted: Whose house? Our house!

Jo Giles, executive director of the Womens Fund of Omaha, was brought to tears.

Wow! she said. This was unexpected, but were so glad to have this win. We have fought so hard. This bill is not what the majority of women in this state wanted.

Updated at 15.04EDT

Samuel Alito, the author of last years supreme court decision overturning Roe v Wade and allowing states to ban abortion, said the leak of a draft ruling put conservative justices in peril.

Those of us who were thought to be in the majority, thought to have approved my draft opinion, were really targets of assassination, Alito said in an interview published by the Wall Street Journal. It was rational for people to believe that they might be able to stop the decision in Dobbs by killing one of us.

The leak of the courts decision in Dobbs v Jackson Womens Health Organization marked a rare moment in which the public learned of the courts decision before its official announcement. Supreme court chief justice John Roberts ordered an investigation into the leak, and this past January, the courts marshal said she couldnt say who was the culprit.

I personally have a pretty good idea who is responsible, but thats different from the level of proof that is needed to name somebody, Alito said. It was a part of an effort to prevent the Dobbs draft . . . from becoming the decision of the court. And thats how it was used for those six weeks by people on the outsideas part of the campaign to try to intimidate the court.

Supreme court justices rarely grant interviews, but Alito, who was appointed by Republican George W Bush, spoke to an an editor on the Journals editorial board, which is reliably conservative. The other interviewer was David B Rivkin Jr, a former attorney in the administrations of Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush.

Updated at 14.47EDT

A woman who was jailed for her participation in the Jan. 6 insurrection embraced Donald Trump at a campaign event and called for the execution of Mike Pence.

At a Thursday campaign event in New Hampshire, QAnon supporter Micki Larson-Olson was pointed out to Trump as someone who participated in Jan 6. Trump then found Larson-Olsen, gave her a hug, and called her terrific, reported the Hill. Trump also told Larson-Olsen to hang in there.

During an NBC interview the following day, the woman called Trump the real president, adding that she would like a front seat of Mike Pence being executed.

Larson-Olsen was previously sentenced to six months in prison for her participation in Jan. 6 riots.

Updated at 14.26EDT

The White House has responded to claims made by the political website Axios that White House staffers face challenges with Joe Biden because of his age.

In an article published Friday, Axios said voters were concerned about Bidens age amid recent announcements that he plans to run for a second term.

The article also White House officials were amazed at Bidens stamina often adding the caveat for his age and had difficulty scheduling meetings with Biden outside of 10am to 4pm on weekdays.

In response to the article, White House deputy press secretary Andrew Bates criticized the outlet on Twitter, writing that Axios previously claimed White House advisers as sources on a story claiming Biden would not announce a reelection campaign. He posted:

Funnily, half our on record response was omitted. For transparency: Are these the same advisers and close allies who you wrote on April 3 don't expect him to announce a run for re-election any time soon?"

Age well, kids: "Biden holds back '24 launch" https://t.co/PuGtQKzfk1 https://t.co/yfBCDTSp9M

Updated at 14.26EDT

Our columnist Moira Donegan considers the current impasse between the Democratic-controlled Senate judiciary committee and the conservative US supreme court chief justice, John Roberts, over ethics rules and the justices, in light of reporting about Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch

It was a short letter. John Roberts, chief justice of the US supreme court, was brief in his missive to Democratic senator Dick Durbin, who chairs the Senate judiciary committee.

Citing separation of powers concerns and the importance of preserving judicial independence, Roberts declined to appear before the committee to discuss disturbing recent revelations of ethics violations at the court.

Congress is meant to exert checks on judicial power to investigate or even impeach judges who abuse their office or interpret the law in ways that violate its spirit, and to affirm that the elected branches will hold more sway over policy than the appointed one. But the chief justices show of indifference to congressional oversight authority reflects a new reality: that there are now effectively no checks on the power of the court at least none that Democrats have the political will to use and that the justices can be assured that they will face no repercussions even if they act in flagrant violation of ethical standards. It seems that they intend to.

Read on

Updated at 13.36EDT

Heres some lunchtime reading from Jason Stanley, Jacob Urowsky professor of philosophy at Yale University, and the author of How Fascism Works

Fox News has finally broken ties with its most popular star, Tucker Carlson. His ousting has been bemoaned by some commentators, who have taken Carlson to be a rebellious anti-war populist, evading easy political characterization. But is it really so complicated to classify Carlsons political ideology?

In late February 2022, Carlson, in the face of Russias invasion of Ukraine, began a pro-Russia monologue urging his audience to ask themselves the question: Why do I hate Putin so much?

The gist of Carlsons comments about Russias leader is that Putin should not be regarded as an enemy. Instead, the real enemies of America are those who call white Americans racist, those who teach so-called critical race theory in schools, business elites who ship jobs abroad, and those who imposed Covid lockdowns on the United States.

Read on

Updated at 13.05EDT

More shots have been fired in the brewing Republican brouhaha over Ron DeSantiss fight with Disney, if from an unexpected artillery piece: that fielded by Kevin McCarthy, the speaker of the US House.

Id give him the same advice I gave President Biden, McCarthy told CNBC, while basking in having managed to pass a budget proposal amid a standoff with the White House over the increasingly pressing need to raise the debt ceiling.

Why wouldnt you sit down and negotiate and talk? If theres differences, you can always find ways that you can solve this problem.

DeSantis and Disney are at odds over the Florida governors so-called dont say gay law about teaching gender and LGBTQ+ issues in schools, and DeSantiss power grab at self-governing powers long enjoyed by the entertainment giant around its Disney World theme park near Orlando.

This week, Disney sued the governor and the governor, while on an international tour, snapped back.

McCarthy said: This is a big employer inside Florida. I think the governor should sit down with them. I dont think the idea of building a prison next to a place that you bring your family a threat made by DeSantis, possibly in jest is the best idea. I think itd be much better if you sat down and solved the problems.

DeSantiss standing in the Republican presidential primary has slipped, as concerns about issues including his attempt to bend Disney to his will are expressed within the party.

McCarthy added: If youre going to be a large employer inside this state, you should also abide by the rules and run your business and dont think you should get into politics. You can take whatever position you want, but remember, if youre elected to run a business, thats what your shareholders want you to do.

Here, as previously trailed today, is some further reading about DeSantiss military service:

Updated at 12.46EDT

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Samuel Alito says leaked abortion draft made conservative justices targets of assassination as it happened - The Guardian US

Former Vice President Mike Pence speaks in Salt Lake City on Friday, April 28, 2023. (KUTV)

Former Vice President Mike Pence speaks in downtown Salt Lake today, a day after testifying for hours before a grand jury in Washington investigating efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

Pences speech to an invitation-only lunch crowd is happening at Zions Bank headquarters, and almost certainly was scheduled before his grand jury appearance.

I will always believe by Gods grace, with my wife by my side all day and nightthat we did our duty under the Constitution of the United States of America, Pence said to a standing ovation.

The Gary R Herbert Institute for Public Policy at UVU said it invited Pence to speak on local and national public policy issues, and said he will share his insights from his time serving as vice president, congressman and governor.

Pence had the latter two roles in Indiana, but the news getting the most attention now surrounds defying former President Trumps call for him to block certification of the 2020 election resultsand Pences own likely run for the White House.

The former vice president reportedly resisted the grand jury testimony, but a federal judge ruled he had to comply with a subpoena from special counsel Jack Smith, who is focused on Trumps actions related to the 2020 election.

Politico earlier reported Pence is building out his political team to get ready for a presidential run, and that his nonprofit called Advancing American Freedom has already held a retreat in Utah attended by major donors.

Polls published by realclearpolitics.com show Pence in third place for the Republican nomination, well behind Trump and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.

On a visit to Utah while vice president, Pence promoted the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Trade Agreement, which was stalled in Congress at the time, but eventually became law.

After his speech at a medical equipment manufacturer, he took questions from local reporters, and he may do the same today.

Pence presided as Congress certified the election results against the wishes of Trump, and after demonstrators breached the Capitol.

The former vice president spoke of his Christian faith, immigration, national debt, and a rising threat from Chinaand it was not lost on anyone in the room that hes eyeing his own run for the White House.

I think the American people want to see us restore a threshold of civility and respect in public life once again, said Pence to applause. I believe it with all my heart.

People who watched and listened Friday described Pence as a person of strong conviction with power and experience and kindness.

RELATED: Former Vice President Mike Pence hosting roundtable discussion in Utah

But Kevin Johnson added another impression.

Hes not overly exciting, Johnson said. Hes not going to bring down the house.

Pence is running third in polls for the GOP presidential nomination, in single digits, and well behind Trump and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis.

Asked if he would vote for Pence for president, Curtis Blair said with a smile, You know, thats a really good question. I dont know.

Carson Jorgensen, former Utah Republican Party chair, cast Pence as a long shot.

I think its an uphill battle for him, said Jorgensen, and everybody knows it.

View original post here:
Mike Pence speaking in Utah day after grand jury testimony - KOMO News

Estimated read time: 6-7 minutes

SALT LAKE CITY Former Vice President Mike Pence received a warm welcome in Utah from several political and community leaders, when he said he believes the Biden administration has "weakened America at home and abroad," but hinted that change is coming.

He repeatedly took aim at President Joe Biden during a luncheon in the Zions Bank Head Office in Salt Lake City on Friday afternoon, blaming the president for crime, illegal immigration, energy prices and the chaotic removal of troops from Afghanistan.

"I'm here to tell you, hope is on the way," he said. "I truly believe we are 18 months away from a great American comeback, and it will start right here."

Pence, Donald Trump's two-time running mate and vice president, has long been rumored as a potential challenger to his former boss in the 2024 Republican presidential primary. Although Pence has yet to announce a formal campaign, he is reportedly planning to launch a political action committee to back his candidacy, according to Politico.

Projecting a difference in tone and style to the former president, Pence called for a return to civility and respect in political discourse in the country.

"I believe there's a hunger in this country to restore civility to the public debate," he said. "Our politics is more divided today than any time in my lifetime, (but) I'm not convinced the American people are as divided."

The closed-door roundtable was hosted by the Utah Valley University Gary R. Herbert Institute for Public Policy. Former Utah Gov. Gary Herbert and philanthropist Scott Keller, whose name adorns the Scott C. Keller business building at UVU, joined Pence for a luncheon that was open to the media, with Herbert moderating a discussion with the former vice president.

While Pence repeatedly rebuffed questions from Herbert about whether he will run in 2024, he dropped several hints that he's planning on doing so while drawing a distinct difference between himself and Trump. Where the former president has continued to grieve his loss in 2020 and cast himself as "retribution" for those he claims were wronged, Pence was optimistic about the future of the country.

"God is not done with America yet, and I believe if we will turn our hearts back to Him, the best days for the greatest nation on Earth are yet to come," he said.

Pence said his opinion of the federal government has gone down over his last two decades in politics, but said his "opinion of the American people has gone up every day."

"I've seen the compassion, the generosity, the kindness, the idealism of the American people every day," he said. "The challenge we have: we just got to have government as good as our people."

In an interview with KSL NewsRadio after his speech, Pence again declined to commit to running, but said the U.S. faces a crisis of national debt, and Americans deserve a leader who will be upfront with them.

"Without making any announcements today, if the American people were to call me into service, I think I'd spend a little less time talking to Congress and a lot more time talking to the American people," he said, when asked how he would respond to the current stalemate over the nation's debt ceiling. "It's going to take leadership, it's going to take reform, but I think it all begins with talking to the American people and telling them the truth about where we're headed in the national debt."

The Trump administration added nearly $7.8 trillion to the national debt, according to ProPublica, and Pence signaled that he wants to return to fiscally conservative government.

"I want to concede the fact that other than what we did to get the economy moving and rebuild our military, and other than what we did for families and businesses in the worst pandemic in a hundred years, I don't think our administration did everything we needed to do to restrain federal spending," he said.

Pence's visit to Utah comes a day after he testified before a grand jury in Washington, D.C., that is investigating Trump's role in efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Trump supporters had pressured Pence during the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol insurrection to reject electoral votes cast for then-President-elect Joe Biden, though legal experts and Pence himself have said the vice president doesn't have that power.

Since then, Pence has had a complicated relationship with the former president and his supporters, and has emerged as a potential challenger to Trump. Last month, Pence said Trump's "reckless words endangered my family and everyone at the Capitol that day, and I know that history will hold Donald Trump accountable."

Pence said he's not at liberty to discuss his grand jury testimony publicly, and other than his interview with KSL NewsRadio, he didn't take questions from journalists.

In his speech, Pence declared Jan. 6 a "tragic day," but said he "shared the concern of millions of Americans about irregularities in the elections."

Although he's sympathetic to those who questioned the legitimacy of the election, Pence believes American institutions held together in light of the violence of Jan. 6.

"Jan. 6 was a tragic day, but thanks to the courage of law enforcement, violence was quelled. Members of both parties returned to the Capitol the very same day," he said. "And I believe a day of tragedy became a triumph for freedom because our institutions held, and I will always believe by God's grace ... that we did our duty that day under the Constitution of the United States."

Herbert acknowledged that Republicans "seem to be divided inside the party," and complained that young Americans are less likely to identify with either of the major parties.

"What do you think we should be doing?" he asked Pence. "Our young people are being attracted to socialism ... and dropping out of engagement. And they complain a lot, but they're not doing things. The future is our young people. What would you do as president to bring that about?"

But Pence seemed skeptical that there's a problem with younger Americans.

"I have to tell you, I'm so inspired by this generation. I'm absolutely convinced the young Americans today are the freedom generation," he said. "I mean, this is a generation that's grown up with the whole world at their fingertips ... you can't tell me that the generation that has grown accustomed to that kind of consumer choice, that kind of flow of information, is going to put up with socialism.

"This is the freedom generation, we just got to take the message of freedom to them."

With that in mind, Pence again turned his focus to the future, saying Republicans will be better served by looking ahead, not behind.

"Whatever the future holds for me and my incredible wife, I promise you we will cherish the support that we have from the people of Utah always, and we will never stop fighting to restore this nation to the ideals that have always made us strong and great and true," he said.

Pence is the second potential 2024 candidate to visit Utah in as many weeks, after Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis addressed delegates at Utah's Republican Party convention last Saturday at Utah Valley University.

Bridger Beal-Cvetko covers Utah politics, Salt Lake County communities and breaking news for KSL.com. He is a graduate of Utah Valley University.

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Former Vice President Mike Pence hints at presidential run in meeting with Utah leaders - KSL.com