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Former White House counselorKellyanne Conwaysaid that if former President Trump chooses not to run in the 2024 presidential election, he should put his support behind his former vice president, Mike Pence.

In an appearance on The Wall Street Journals Free Expression podcast published Tuesday, Conway told host Gerard Baker that Trump is absolutely the overwhelming prohibitive favorite if he decides to run for president.

Trumps former campaign manager added that its mainly because of his accomplishments and his fantastic job as president.

The Trump/Pence accomplishments are remarkable, and we can go through them. People dont seem to want to, but if he runs for president, hell be talking about that. If Mike Pence runs for president instead of Donald Trump, if Donald Trump says no, hell be talking about the Trump-Pence accomplishments, Conway added.

Conway said that voters already know what happened regarding the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol riot, and despite that, hes beating Biden in these polls.

Hes beating all other Republican candidates among Republican primary voters, she added.

Conway said that the former president should support his vice president when asked if Trump would support Pence if he chooses not to run.

She added that if Trump decides not to run, he should think very deeply about supporting his vice president, because they were a magical, magnificent, marvelous team.

Conway also refuted reports that the former president stood by as Jan. 6 rioters called to hang Mike Pence after he refused to support efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results.

I think its really unfair for people to repeat that if hes denied it, and yet, just gloss right past four years worth of accomplishments that they did together.

Former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinsontestified during a hearingof the Jan. 6 House Committee last month that then-White House chief of staff Mark Meadows described a conversation with the president on the day of the Capitol riot where he said Mike deserves it.

Trump, however, pushed back on these claims on his social media app Truth Social: I NEVER SAID, MIKE PENCE DESERVES IT (to be hung). Another made up statement by a third rate social climber!

Conway further blasted the House Jan. 6 Committee hearings and said that she didnt think it was particularly compelling.

The former Trump official said she had questions about the veracity of the former White House aides testimony, because Hutchinson kept saying the gist of it was, or they said something like.

That would never be able to pass in a court of law, she added.

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Kellyanne Conway: Trump should think about supporting a Pence 2024 bid if he doesnt run - The Hill

WASHINGTON Each revelation in public testimony before the Jan. 6 committee has been more explosive than the last from former President Donald Trumps direct role in organizing fake electors to tirades that left ketchup oozing down a White House wall.

As the panel resumes its televised public hearings this week, lawmakers are focused on demonstrating how Trumps actions merged with and culminated in the violence at the Capitol.

Committee members say its easy to sum up everything thats been presented. He lost, he knew it and he embarked on an alternate effort to stay in power, said Rep. Stephanie Murphy, D-Fla., who is expected to lead questioning at an upcoming hearing.

But for those who havent watched every minute of the hearings and even for some who have it can be difficult to process all of the new information and keep it fresh as new bombshells drop. These are the key revelations so far.

Several of Trumps political advisers testified in clips played at committee hearings that they told him he had lost the election to Democrat Joe Biden.

Bill Stepien, who served as Trumps campaign manager, told investigators that he informed Trump on election night that he would be wrong to declare victory and that Trump dismissed his assertion in favor of adviser Rudy Giulianis unfounded and false claims that the election was riddled with fraud.

Jason Miller, another Trump adviser, testified that Giuliani was inebriated on election night, which Giuliani has disputed. Trumps camp split into two factions, with his main political aides forming what Stepien referred to as Team Normal and continuing to report to him that Biden had won.

William Barr, the attorney general until mid-December 2020, testified that he and Trump fought over Barrs public assertion that the Justice Department had found no grounds for claims of widespread election fraud. Barr, who ultimately resigned, told investigators that Trump was detached from reality if he believed the election was rigged.

Former Justice Department officials testified that Trump pressured them to reverse Barrs conclusion.

Just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican congressmen, Trump told Justice officials on Dec. 27, according to notes kept by then-acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue.

Many details of Trumps campaign to pressure state officials to overturn the election results and appoint alternate electors were already publicly known before the committee began its work.

I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, Trump told Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in a post-election phone call that is now the subject of a Georgia investigation, for example.

But testimony and documents produced by the committee revealed a much broader campaign by Trump and two of his lawyers Giuliani and John Eastman to stop valid electoral votes from being counted on Jan. 6.

Republican National Committee Chair Ronna McDaniel testified in a pre-recorded deposition that Trump introduced her to Eastman over the phone and Eastman laid out a plan for the committee to help organize slates of what she called contingent electors in pivotal states where Trump lost.

Trump supporters in several closely contested states ultimately submitted documents signed by fake electors to the National Archives and tried to get them in Vice President Mike Pences hands to allow him to count those electors or at least throw the validity of the real electoral votes into doubt.

The committee showed a text-message exchange in which an aide to Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wis., tried to arrange a meeting between the senator and Pence on Jan. 6 so that Johnson could give Pence bogus slates. A Pence aide nixed the idea. (Johnson has played down the import of the texts and said he wasn't involved in creating the slates).

Trump and his advisers viewed Jan. 6, when Pence would oversee the official count of electoral votes, as the last chance to keep Trump in power despite his defeat.

As Jan. 6 neared, Trumps team became increasingly resigned to the idea that Pence was the last man standing between Trump and more time in the Oval Office even though Pence had been advised, and believed, that he had no legal authority to do anything other than count the real electoral votes.

Trump planned to use a Stop the Steal rally on Jan. 6 to rally his supporters to march to the Capitol, where he would join them, Cassidy Hutchinson, an aide to then-Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, testified last week.

She said Giuliani told her four days before the rally, Were going to the Capitol. ... The president is going to be there. Hes going to look powerful.

When Hutchinson informed Meadows of the exchange, he replied, things might get real, real bad on Jan. 6," according to her testimony.

On Jan. 4, Eastman told Trump that there was no legal basis for Pence to interfere with the electoral-vote count, Pence counsel Greg Jacob testified. Still, Trump homed in on the vice president.

During a phone call the morning of the insurrection, Trump berated Pence and called him the 'p' word," according to recorded testimony from Julie Radford, who was an aide to Ivanka Trump.

The former president also put enormous public pressure on Pence by tweeting about him and invoking his role in the vote count repeatedly during his rally near the White House on the morning of Jan. 6.

At one point during his rally, Trump was told that some of his supporters were declining to come through magnetometers metal detectors because they were armed, Hutchinson testified.

I dont f---ing care that they have weapons, Trump railed, according to Hutchinsons testimony. Theyre not here to hurt me. Take the f---ing mags away.

Trump then urged his supporters to march to the Capitol, where extremist groups were waiting to be joined by the mob, and told them he would join them.

Hutchinson testified that Trump became irate when Secret Service officials told him they were driving him back to the White House rather than the Capitol after the rally. She testified that she was told he tried to take control of the steering wheel. A person close to the Secret Service previously confirmed that Trump was furious about not being driven to the Capitol, but said that the altercation Hutchinson described did not happen.

In trying to establish a pattern of outbursts, Hutchinson told a story about Trump flinging his lunch, leaving her and another White House staff member to clean ketchup off the wall.

At the Capitol on Jan. 6, insurrectionists attacked police officers and breached the building. Some of them chanted Hang Mike Pence, as rioters came within 40 feet of the man first in line to the presidency, according to the committee.

At the White House, Trump was informed that the Capitol was under attack and Pences life was in danger. Hutchinson testified that she was present for a conversation in which White House counsel Pat Cipollone tried to get Meadows to intervene.

You heard [Trump], Pat, Meadows said, according to Hutchinson. He thinks Mike deserves it.He doesnt think theyre doing anything wrong.

Read more from the original source:
Here are the major revelations from the Jan. 6 committee hearings so far - NBC News

By Richard Cowan and Katanga Johnson

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -Congressional investigators into the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol expect this week to draw connections between militant groups that took part and government officials, possibly including then-President Donald Trump, a member of the committee conducting the investigation said on Sunday.

"We are going to be connecting the dots during these hearings between these groups and those who were trying in government circles to overturn the election," Democratic Representative Zoe Lofgren said on CNN's "State of the Union."

Asked if Trump was aware members of these groups attended a rally he led outside the White House when he urged them to march on the Capitol, Lofgren said: "You have to reach your own conclusions but based on the events leading up to the day, I think that would be a logical conclusion."

Trump, a Republican, has falsely claimed Democrat Joe Biden defeated him in the 2020 presidential election through massive fraud - assertions rejected in U.S. courts, by Trump's own Justice Department and even Republican-led audits.

After Trump spoke outside the White House on Jan. 6, his supporters marched to the Capitol in a failed bid to prevent Congress from certifying Biden's victory in a session where then-Vice President Mike Pence was presiding.

Two groups, the self-described Oath Keepers and Proud Boys, will be under the spotlight in the two hearings this week, expected on Tuesday and Thursday.

NBC News reported that Jason Van Tatenhove, a former spokesperson for the Oath Keepers, would testify on Tuesday. A committee spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment.

Federal prosecutors have alleged that Jeremy Brown, a member of the Oath Keepers, brought explosives to the Washington area on Jan. 6. Brown, in a statement, called the charges a "disgusting lie."

During a September 2020 debate between Trump and Biden before the November election, Trump was asked whether he would condemn white supremacist and militia groups for violent activities during his presidency.

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Trump responded, "Proud Boys, stand back and stand by." He added, "Somebody's got to do something about antifa and the left. ... this is a left-wing problem."

On Friday, former White House counsel Pat Cipollone testified to committee investigators behind closed doors.

Videotaped excerpts of that testimony will be presented at Tuesday's hearing, said Lofgren, who is one of nine members on a bipartisan House of Representatives Select Committee that began its current series of public hearings last month.

"He was able to provide information on basically all of the critical issues we are looking at, including the president's what-I-would-call dereliction of duty on the day of Jan. 6," Lofgren said.

The committee has yet to say whether this Thursday's hearing, expected in evening prime time when U.S. television audiences are at their peak, will be the final one before a panel report is issued, possibly in September.

Representative Adam Kinzinger, one of two Republicans on the panel, is expected to lead witness questioning that night, along with Democratic Representative Elaine Luria.

"We're going to really focus on what was the president doing from in essence the moment the insurrection started until he finally, hours later, put out a tweet that said, 'We shouldn't do anything like this,'" Kinzinger told ABC's "This Week."

He added, "Keep in mind in the middle of that was the tweet that said in essence this is what happens when you steal an election; that Vice President Pence deserved this."

In earlier committee testimony, witnesses said Trump signaled support for rioters calling for Pence to be hanged.

Lofgren also said the committee had received a letter from Trump adviser Steve Bannon saying he would be willing to testify. Bannon was charged last year with two counts of contempt of Congress for defying a committee subpoena.

(Reporting by Richard Cowan and Katanga Johnson; Additional reporting by Tyler Clifford and Patricia Zengerle; Editing by Mary Milliken, Howard Goller and Edwina Gibbs)

Read more here:
Links between Trump associates, militants in focus at Jan 6 hearings this week - Yahoo News

What characteristics make a good leader? What characteristicsmake a good leader?

Annie, 27, Illinois, Leans Democrat

Aaliyah, 23, Florida, Independent

Barrett, 39, Texas, Leans Democrat

For all the attention Liz Cheney, Mike Pence and Cassidy Hutchinson have received recently, their acts of political bravery standing up to Donald Trump and facing threats to their safety and future as a result are hardly defining features of our current political moment. Bravery and courage are not only leadership traits seldom seen by Americans but also qualities subject to debate: By refusing to go along with Mr. Trumps subversion of the election, was Mr. Pence brave or simply doing his job? Is Ms. Cheney courageous in her pursuit of Mr. Trump, or is she thumbing her nose at the many Wyoming Republicans who elected her and still embrace him?

In our latest Times Opinion focus group, which took place before the July Fourth weekend, a mix of 10 Democrats, independents and Republicans said they were hungry for leadership. They admired people they saw as patriots, like Ms. Cheney, President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine and, in some cases, President Biden for making the hard call to withdraw American troops from Afghanistan. But what several of them wanted leaders willing to tell hard truths, go against the grain, stand up for something unpopular seemed to them qualities belonging to past leaders: Winston Churchill, the suffragists, Moses. Still, they saw glimmers in politicians like Pete Buttigieg, Katie Porter and Joe Manchin, though Mr. Manchin divided the group sharply.

We wanted to understand how Americans saw political bravery and courage and who they saw displaying it in an era when political posturing, attacks and stunts are so much more common. The conversation ultimately turned back toward ourselves, with a Democrat from California arguing that Americans get the politicians they deserve that, in other words, if politicians today arent brave and courageous, it might be because we arent brave and courageous, either.

Mr. Healy is the deputy Opinion editor. Mr. Rivera is an editorial assistant in Opinion.

Barrett 39, Texas, White, Consultant, Leans Democrat

Aaliyah 23, Florida, Asian, Tech, Independent

Tiffany 30, Georgia, Black, Clothing Designer, Leans Democrat

Angel 25, Ohio, Asian, Engineer, Leans Republican

David 56, Massachusetts, White, Adminstrative Support, Independent

Annie 27, Illinois, White, Consultant, Leans Democrat

Susan 64, New Jersey, White, Retired, Independent

Jeremiah 47, Arizona, Black, Truck Driver, Independent

Roger 51, California, Black, Real Estate Broker, Leans Democrat

Barry 57, California, White, Retired, Independent

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Who do you think of as a good leader?

Roger, 51, California, Black, Real Estate Broker, Leans Democrat

First person that comes to mind is Barack Obama.

Annie, 27, Illinois, White, Consultant, Leans Democrat

Angela Merkel.

David, 56, Massachusetts, White, Adminstrative Support, Independent

Barack Obama and the coach of my beloved Celtics, Ime Udoka.

Angel, 25, Ohio, Asian, Engineer, Leans Republican

Elon Musk.

Tiffany, 30, Georgia, Black, Clothing Designer, Leans Democrat

LeBron James.

Barry, 57, California, White, Retired, Independent

George W. Bush.

Jeremiah, 47, Arizona, Black, Truck Driver, Independent

The mayor of Long Beach, Robert Garcia. Hes wonderful, and he's coming up quickly on the platform.

Aaliyah, 23, Florida, Asian, Tech, Independent

Bill Gates.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

What characteristics make a good leader?

Jeremiah, 47, Arizona, Black, Truck Driver, Independent

Effective communication.

Annie, 27, Illinois, White, Consultant, Leans Democrat

Compassion, understanding, being a servant leader.

David, 56, Massachusetts, White, Adminstrative Support, Independent

Honesty.

Aaliyah, 23, Florida, Asian, Tech, Independent

Consistency.

Roger, 51, California, Black, Real Estate Broker, Leans Democrat

Clear direction.

Barrett, 39, Texas, White, Consultant, Leans Democrat

Straightforward, no sugarcoating.

Tiffany, 30, Georgia, Black, Clothing Designer, Leans Democrat

Not being afraid of doing what is right, no matter what everyone else thinks.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

How do you define bravery? What does it mean to be brave?

Susan, 64, New Jersey, White, Retired, Independent

You see a situation, have a solution, and you go and you do it. You pretty much do it without fear because you have a level of confidence that you know what youre doing.

Angel, 25, Ohio, Asian, Engineer, Leans Republican

Bravery is not being afraid to do something that you want to do. It does not necessarily have to be the right thing. Its just going for what you believe in, regardless of whos watching you.

Aaliyah, 23, Florida, Asian, Tech, Independent

Being someone whos able to confront things that other people arent able to confront.

Barrett, 39, Texas, White, Consultant, Leans Democrat

Being brave is being willing to stand up for someone else.

Jeremiah, 47, Arizona, Black, Truck Driver, Independent

I would include that you do what you do because you need to, you have to or you want to, regardless of those consequences.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

A show-of-hands question: Do you think American political leaders today are brave when it comes to making tough decisions? [Nobody raises a hand.]

David, 56, Massachusetts, White, Adminstrative Support, Independent

Do I think some politicians are brave? Yes. But overall, as a unit, I dont think politicians are very brave. I think theyre beholden to what or who theyre beholden to, regardless of whats best for their constituents.

Tiffany, 30, Georgia, Black, Clothing Designer, Leans Democrat

I dont think theyre brave. I just feel like there are a lot of things they should agree on that affect us no matter what. Its like our life is just a game to them.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

Is there an example of something, Tiffany, that you think they should be able to agree on that comes to mind?

Tiffany, 30, Georgia, Black, Clothing Designer, Leans Democrat

I mean, like, feeding kids in school for free. Why is that such a debate? I dont think there should be a debate. We should feed our kids at school.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

David made the point that some political leaders can be brave. Is there anyone who agrees with that, and does any politician come to mind?

Susan, 64, New Jersey, White, Retired, Independent

There are some political leaders who can be brave, but they are penalized, punished, demeaned and disgraced by their cohorts. Bravery is moot. If youre the only Republican and standing up for a Democratic proposal, youre sanctioned. Liz Cheney is a perfect example. She tried to stand up for what was right even though it was counter to what her party line was. And she was sanctioned because of it. That line that we all are afraid to cross doing whats right regardless of the cost stops a lot of people. But it also makes a lot of good people leave, which is another danger. If you want to affect change, you cant do it if you walk away.

Angel, 25, Ohio, Asian, Engineer, Leans Republican

Cheney stood up for what she believed in. And shes currently at a position where she has to face continued backlash from the politics environment. So I definitely think that shes brave.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Thats a good segue to our next question. Im going to give a couple of examples of actions, and with a show of hands, tell me if you consider those actions to be brave or not: If an elected leader holds a different point of view than most of the people in the state or district they represent, and they vote or act based on their principles rather than what the majority view is even if they know that it might be unpopular is that considered brave?

Is it brave if you vote or act in a way thatis based on your principles, even if it isunpopular with the people you represent? Is it brave if you vote or act ina way that is based on your principles, even if it is unpopularwith the people you represent? 6 people raised their hands.

Barrett, 39, Texas, Leans Democrat

Aaliyah, 23, Florida, Independent

Tiffany, 30, Georgia, Leans Democrat

Angel, 25, Ohio, Leans Republican

David, 56, Massachusetts, Independent

Annie, 27, Illinois, Leans Democrat

Susan, 64, New Jersey, Independent

Jeremiah, 47, Arizona, Independent

Roger, 51, California, Leans Democrat

Barry, 57, California, Independent

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Annie, you did not put your hand up. Why?

Annie, 27, Illinois, White, Consultant, Leans Democrat

I think theres a difference between personal bravery and political bravery. For me, its not politically brave, because if its unpopular with your constituents, then that shouldnt be something that you vote for.

David, 56, Massachusetts, White, Adminstrative Support, Independent

If you stand for what you believe, even though the others in your group or the others in your party dont, then I think that shows some bravery.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

See the rest here:
Opinion | From Biden to Cheney to Manchin, Are Politicians Brave Anymore? - The New York Times

Why isn't Atty. Gen. Merrick Garland prosecuting Trump? Indicting a former president for trying to subvert an election is harder than it looks. (Patrick Semansky / Associated Press)

The House committee on the Jan. 6, 2021, insurgency, whose hearings resume this week, has produced impressive evidence that could allow prosecutors to argue that former President Trump committed crimes as he tried to overturn the 2020 election.

Thanks to the hearings, we now know more clearly that Trump tried to bully Vice President Mike Pence into blocking Congress count of electoral votes, tried to bully Justice Department officials into declaring the election fraudulent even though they knew it wasnt and stood by with seeming approval while his armed supporters sacked the Capitol.

All of which has led many ordinary citizens and not just Trump-haters to wonder: Why isnt Atty. Gen. Merrick Garland prosecuting this man?

The answer is both complicated and simple. Indicting a former president for trying to subvert a presidential election is harder than it looks.

Its definitely not a slam-dunk, Paul Rosenzweig, a former federal prosecutor (and anti-Trump Republican), told me last week. It will require tough decisions.

The problem isnt lack of evidence. The former Trump aides who have testified before the House committee and been interviewed by the FBI have taken care of that.

The problem, Rosenzweig and other former prosecutors said, is that convincing a jury that Trump is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt will still be difficult especially when the former president, armed with good lawyers, can challenge that evidence.

We know from the polls that about 30% of the American people think Trump did nothing wrong on Jan. 6, Rosenzweig said. Thirty percent of a jury is three or four people. I think getting a unanimous conviction will be nearly impossible, even in the liberal District of Columbia.

And a trial that ends in Trumps acquittal, he warned, would backfire.

It would not only have the effect of giving Trump impunity, he said, "it would give him impunity and an aura of invincibility.

Others disagree. Donald B. Ayer, another Republican former prosecutor, thinks a conviction would be possible. Trump was ready to have Mike Pence be killed, Ayer said. You tell that story to a jury, and I think you win.

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But Ayer notes that Justice Department regulations require that prosecutors believe they have a high probability of winning a conviction before they can indict. By that standard, what Garland is doing is both correct and by the book. Hes investigating aggressively but prosecuting cautiously.

Justice Department lawyers have served subpoenas on Rudolph W. Giuliani and John Eastman, lawyers who advised Trump on his schemes, and on pro-Trump activists who organized bogus slates of alternative electors in swing states like Arizona and Georgia.

Last month, FBI agents searched the Virginia home of Jeffrey Clark, a former top Justice Department official who pushed colleagues to endorse Trumps claims of voter fraud.

And prosecutors have indicted leaders of the right-wing Proud Boys and Oath Keepers militias on charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with Jan. 6.

All of which suggests that the Justice Department is pursuing a traditional organized-crime model in its investigation: prosecuting small fish to build cases against the higher-ups.

Even so, Trump will be able to argue in his defense that he lacked criminal intent, by claiming either that he genuinely believed the election had been stolen or did not know that interfering with Congress could be against the law.

The most likely charges against Trump are conspiracy to defraud the United States, a broad statute that covers almost any illegitimate interference with government operations, and conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding.

There is also a broader policy question surrounding a decision to indict a former president, an action no prosecutor has taken before: Would it be in the national interest?

Indicting a past and possible future political adversary of the current president would be a cataclysmic event, Jack Goldsmith, a former Justice Department official in the George W. Bush administration, warned last month. It would be seen by many as politicized retribution. The prosecution would take many years to conclude [and would] deeply affect the next election.

Others lawyers, both Republicans and Democrats, disagree vigorously.

Its essential that Trump be prosecuted, if only to deter him and future presidential candidates from trying to do this again, Norman Eisen, a former Obama administration official, argued. It would do terrible damage to allow a former president to walk free after committing acts for which anyone else would be indicted.

Those debates dont amount to a conclusive argument against prosecuting Trump. But they do add up to a list of reasons why Garland should avoid a rush to judgment while his investigators do their work and that, to all appearances, is precisely what hes doing.

This story originally appeared in Los Angeles Times.

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Prosecute Trump? Merrick Garland is investigating aggressively but prosecuting cautiously - Yahoo News