anon994955Post 110
The assumption of socialism is that the government is somehow morally fit to distribute wealth without bias or discrimination. And that assumption is based on the presupposition that we as humans are naturally good and if given a chance would always do the right thing. My advice is pick up a history book. If you want to see a microcosm of socialism, in an organizational sense, go down to your local government facility (post office, dmv, social security, VA) and see happy workers striving to provide the best of service. Sarcasm intended.
@anon992112-- That's a good question. Many people use communism and socialism interchangeably but they're not exactly the same.
One difference that I know of is that, in socialism, workers are the owners of property, whereas in communism, the community or the state owns it. Socialism is about distributing wealth equally, whereas communism is not only about the distribution of wealth, it's also about politics and making sure that the working class is not exploited.
Another mistake that we often make is that we think that all of these systems are all or nothing but that's not true. Governments can implement parts of these various systems and many countries in the world do implement some things from socialism (such as access to education, social security systems, etc.). The term for an economy that incorporates different systems together is called a "mixed economy."
What is the difference between socialism and communism?
How would putting in the hands of a few politicians all the wealth of the world, be to give it to "the people"? What belongs to the state, even in the most robust democracy, does not belong to the people. Left or Right, wake up. The enemy is the state. They give the "capitalist" their monopolies and help them to maintain hem. They take the wages of the workers to by the votes of the poor whom they keep in poverty. They wage war under false pretense. They poison the people with their propaganda and control of the media. The enemy is the State. Keep faith in virtue.
Think about this. You have a capitalist country that all of a sudden lets millions of slaves free. Those freed slaves now have to try and keep up with society? The constitution was written by men who looked at blacks as less than them so who is the constitution talking to? Who does it speak for? Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness was written for who? Free slaves? Not on your life.
So because of this, yes there has to be some kind of government help to somewhat bring those people from a slavery state to a human state. But it cant just stop there with slaves. Everyone who needs help should be afforded it. regardless of religion, race
or sexual orientation. In America I believe we have a duty as Americans to help out those in our country. Then and only then are we able to help out the world. But it has to start at home. Capitalism only helps those out on top. Socialism helps those at the bottom and middle. I figure if both worked together then everyone should be good eventually. But for now it seems like fantasy.
The US has created two generations who think government handouts are the way to go/survive. Ridiculous. Give me capitalism any day! I ask you kids, you enjoy you're iPhone? You'd better, because the good ol' socialist government would yank it away in a minute. Our youth need to wake up and shut up. Now go get to work.
Neither pure capitalism or pure socialism works. We are a nation of rich and poor. Pure capitalism divides the rich from the poor and pure socialism dictates the dividing the wealth of our nation
unfairly as greedy capitalists do. Compromise is the American way.
As a country, we should work together, with unions and businesses working as partners in negotiation. A fair division of wealth should be determined by one's contributions. A divided country will fall, no matter what form of government is used. I am sure all that post are patriots of this great nation the USA and I agree on most comments of both sides. Let's work together to take back this country from idealistic idiots.
People as a group will only cease to work for their own interests (money in whatever form, currency, food, shelter, social status, whatever) when their mere existence is seen as a direct result of anthers survival rather than their own. This, of course, is not how humans propagate; we are not bees.
The irony of the socialist argument that 'workers' will be happy to work with a "fair share" is that the very existence of our massive and very much unproductive welfare state belies that hypothesis. People who are unemployed have no boss to mistreat them and in many cases, such as in public housing, they don't even have a landlord or meaningful rent to pay.
Are they pulling their
There is only one end to the idea of socialism, and it is the end of the fools who practice it. It is a system born for corruption of the government, whose leaders become the unheard-of electable, to trade prime jobs, homes, and any other resource to anyone they need in exchange for greater and more secure positions of power.
Once again we know this because of communist countries where this has already happened to the point of genocide and self-destruction. In the western and largely still capitalist (free market) countries, this is also the effect of exactly the same sort of power among our political leaders who run government industries ranging from the post office to education and welfare.
Few people realize this, but before FDR massively expanded these industries in power and effect, members of Congress only had a 50 percent reelection rate. The reason was simple: they had little to sell to buy support for reelection only the merits of their job.
When you put political leaders in charge of vast resources, they invariably use those resources to help secure their more permanent hold on power. That is precisely why every communist country is at its heart little more than an oligarchy. When you control everything there is nothing to challenge you on merits.
The evidence of the failure of socialist ideas is everywhere around you. You just have to look to see its results.
You think that the 1 percent that controls more than 60 percent of America's wealth actually works for their money? They don't. Look at the real numbers because they don't lie. People are living in fantasy land if they think people who are rich are those who work hard because that's not true. I don't see a problem with socialism. Period.
You people are arguing about something that can't happen. We're too spoiled, obese and lazy, complacent and greedy to ever try to have true socialism. We would have to have a world wide disaster that wiped out most of the population. Then we would all hopefully work together for the common good.
Look at Star Trek -- what do you think they're practicing in the Federation? True Socialism, not the bastardized versions of reality. Man ruins most everything he sticks his finger in.
Socialism, or as we call it in Europe social-democracy is different in terms from the socialism of Latin America. In Spain, the socialism of Latin America we call communism that even exists but it's a minority.
The social-democracy defends also capitalism and its basic rule is to attempt to reduce the lack of equality between the rich and poor. It defends the middle class.
When you say that Spain is a socialist country, that is a big mistake. Spanish people are more liberal than socialist or conservative. The socialists must moderate their election manifesto and speech in order to govern.
In the case of the conservatives, they are even less supported than socialists and must win the liberal voters in
The first and second elections in the Spanish democracy showed the true Spanish reality: Spanish democratic party: 35 percent; Socialist/social-democratic party: 29 percent; Communist Party: 11 percent;
Conservative Party: 8 percent.
These were the only elections in which all the liberals voted for the democratic party. Nowadays, the conservatives and socialists are ones who must convince the liberal voters.
Liberal voters in polls are evenly divided: Center: 36 percent; Center-Left: 16 percent; Center-right: 10 percent.
Most people, especially youth don't understand what socialism is, why it can't/won't work in this diverse nation of ours and the effects of 'socialism' -- or should I say, 'non-events' of socialism.
It was Capitalism and free enterprise and our founders seeking a 'non-socialist' life that granted us the freedom to achieve our dreams and develop the personal computer, internet, the airplane, polio vaccine, radio, television and automobile.
What have communist and socialist countries produced or contributed to our advancement in medicine and technology? They haven't because there's been no drive to accomplish, no competition. The only thing they have created was created out of war or fear of war. That 'competition' has been their only advancement. Oh yeah, and the
Hey kids, do you think socialism has kept you healthy so far? Produced that iphone you are attached to? That HDTV? those shows you love?
"The USA didn't get to be the world's greatest country by being socialist." Ha! Who says the U.S. is number one?
To the Socialists out there: What do you strive for? Do you have any ambition in life? You think anyone who wants to be better than you are greedy. You think anyone who wants to have more than you is evil.
Socialism is a sickness of the mind. You's best find psychiatric help and leave reality to itself.
To have a propely developed society, where everybody will be treated equal and have equal opportunities, is a socialist society.
Personally, I believe capitalism is the way to go.
I have read a lot of these posts and no one is talking about different forms of socialism other than the extreme form of communism. Most of the happiest countries on Earth have economic systems that practice various forms of socialism and most of those forms have capitalistic aspects.
Don't live by false dichotomies. Question and research everything (including the word dichotomy if you don't know what it means).
What is the definition of fairness? Do we all need a reason to be fair to each other? Is being nice to each other really so hard, or is it weak or wrong to be fair?
What we want and what we have are two different things, but we all seem to understand that what is right and good to be the same thing.
Now who wants the last big cream cake at a party? There are always lots of hands up shouting why they should have it, but there is only one cake.
If you want an argument against socialism, look at the mess that is going on in countries like Cyprus and Spain. Socialism rewards people who didn't contribute anything to get it, and punishes people who work harder. Communism is a more extreme form of socialism, and we all know how that turned out.
The USA didn't get to be the world's greatest country by being socialist. Unfortunately, what it made it a great country, namely the work ethic it once had, is no longer as prevalent as it used to be. The USA is in danger of falling behind, because it's not quite as hungry as it once was in terms of competitiveness. It's still competitive, but the percentage of
China has altered its economy to incorporate more capitalism, not less. If capitalism is so evil, why are emerging countries adopting it into their economic systems? Socialism might be good in certain areas, such as public services, but not in terms of business. The government providing services to the public is fine, but they should stay out of actually owning businesses, since the private sector can do it more effectively and efficiently than the government can do.
My parents both came from extreme poverty and were on their own by time they were teenagers, but they worked two or three jobs at a time and did without
many luxuries in order for their three kids to have everything they did not growing up.
Now they are of retirement age and have a lake house and a fishing boat and a large family who love them and respect them. That is the American Dream, and there are who would support a form of government (socialism) that would take that all away. The world should work like the book "The Little Red Hen" where all the "Not I"'s receive nothing because they gave nothing.
Socialism has destroyed many countries. It creates laziness, and crime in my opinion. Look at the inner cities of the nation, and also look at the deep south, (where I live). People who can work will not try to get jobs because they have no incentive to find jobs. They are content to receive a small monthly salary and food stamps or cards.
I know this for a fact because I see it every minute of every day. Having a a car with 22's or bigger wheels and tires, beer money, dope money and sex is adequate. They have wheels and tires for a $600.00 car, but poor living conditions for the children of different sperm donors.
It is a
generational curse that could be broken, but it would take hard and continuous work, which the recipients are not willing to do, because they know the socialist will "take care" of them. I call it keeping them down which is what their leaders are doing to them. This is a waste of many good people. If only they would break the curse.
I'd question the validity of that 53 percent figure as well. I'm of the opinion that either the poll is skewed greatly, or the poll was conducted in inner cities, ghettos, or in areas of this country where the people are much less educated and less industrious - perhaps in areas such as Appalachia or in cities where there is an overabundance of welfare recipients.
Such a poll should be evenly taken via going to a cross-section of this country where the population has both wealth and destitution and Industrious and less industrious people.
Wow. The lady from Russia spoke the truth. May there be more like her to inform our younger generation what it is like to live under such conditions!
@anon266018, Post 70: Greed is of the heart. Anyone can be greedy. Capitalism is an economic system that is based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods or services for profit.
How is making money greedy? We have to eat to live and it's about survival. It's what we do with the money that is bad, but making money is good as long we provide a service that is needed.
Most human beings who are not mentally ill like to do things and work. Most governments create artificial shortages as part of their way of ruling a country. No hungry person dares to question anything.
Every where there are hungry people working hard to get a roof over their heads and a sandwich to eat. There are few societies that are brave enough to give freedom to their population. For things that are plentiful, the markets are corrupted to create shortages. A shortage means higher prices, and people needing to work all year instead of for a few months a year.
In many countries, people can accumulate all manner of scrap plastic, cloth, wood and electronics, but they have to
The media is all about masking what the world is all about. In every country, the way for the common man to get by is to conform to the smallest degree. Anyone asking questions, even to improve little things, becomes the enemy.
In a "democratic" city where I lived in thirty years, ago half the population had a police file for wrong doing. The wrong doing could be as little as writing a letter to the government asking to improve a local road or to fix a broken street light. It was thought anyone who was not happy must be a communist.
When a new government was elected, the leader questioned the need for files on every citizen, but he did not last long. The files are now back, and every citizen is now a "communist".
I was born and spent half of my life in the USSR. Though some of you offer learned opinions about the socialism as a system, your opinions are just that - theories, based on some articles, books and no personal experience. That is a shame.
To offer you a taste of how socialism worked in USSR, let me share with you some memories of mine:
1. My grand-grand-father was executed for having two cows. Out of his eleven children, only four were alive at the end of World War II. Most of them died of hunger following the redistribution of wealth (the said cows died of hunger too).
2. Education was indeed free, but only for those who conformed to the
3. Most of the education was comprised of indoctrination( party knows what is best for you), dear leader praises (Barack Obama), but science studies were good and I loved that we had hands on experience with cooking, sewing and all other practical things a girl should know. After all, we did not have fast-food, malls and all the rest and had to know how to make things ourselves.
4. The stores were practically empty. Whatever was produced in USSR, was rarely sold to us citizens. Lines for bread, milk, bluish chicken and half-rotten potatoes were a part of my life. Fruits and veggies were a luxury, at least in my area.
5. There were no bright colors. Most of the people wore black, grey, blue and brown. Only flowers and red flags stood out.
6. My summers I spent in summer camps, which was a relief in a way, because at least we could have eat some fruits and go to the sea - organized trips only of course. After I turned 12, I had to work in these camps, "helping" to harvest anything from carrots to rose petals. I was paid for my work - a third of the grown-up salary.
7. I made my way, like the most of my generation through children and youth organizations, swearing of course to serve the party, just like Pavlik Morozov did, but of course you have no idea who he was. This boy snitched on his parents to the party leaders, and they of course murdered Pavlik's parents for treason (no giving up the seeds) and in turn, the villagers executed Pavlik for what he did. A perfect example for the rest of us.
8. When I finished school and tried to apply for the university, my application was rejected and a friend of mine who did get accepted told me that's because I was a Jew (she sat on the commission).
9 Everybody I knew hated their job, except Armenians on the black market. They were happy to make some money selling us stuff that government failed to provide.
10. Hospitals and doctors, though free, were horrible. Dentists and all the rest of the specialists worked with the tools from the previous century and having a baby there was like going to prison: no contact with the outside world and your family for at least a week.
11. All the news said we were wonderful, we were better than anyone else in the world in everything, but of course we could not go abroad to see for ourselves. It was not allowed.
12 Public housing was dreadful, the quality appalling, the quantity never up to the demand. Two generations often had to live in a one room apartment, including the dog.
13. Everything was rationed and of course there was never enough of anything, including basic stuff like toilet paper, detergent and baby food, and tampons were unheard of.
14 There was no unemployment and no homeless. If you were fired from your job or kicked out of your home, the government took care of you and sent you to work camps. Political dissent was punished by psychiatric treatment. You had to love it or be drugged.
So here you have it: free education, housing, healthcare. From everyone according to ability, to everyone according to the needs and to the decision of the local party bureaucrat.
I am lucky, I was allowed to escape. Never a day goes by that I do not think how blessed I am to live now under capitalism. You have no appreciation how good you have it. You are willing to give away your freedom for government handouts.
I say to all those willing to experiment with socialism: if you want it so badly, why do you stay and try to spoil it for the rest of us?
There is still Cuba, China, North Korea and Venezuela. Go there and stay. Never come back.
I was having this discussion with my 25 year old son, but he didn't understand what was so bad about socialism. He's 25 years old and he knew nothing about socialism? He reads a lot but now I'm wondering what he's reading. The history of the USA is not being taught in our schools.
I believe it came as a big surprise to him when I told him about when the pilgrims landed and how they had tried living as a socialist community. And we all know how that turned out! I have a lot of work to do!
This is just a test and a survey to investigate how many communists are here in U.S. to find out the enemies.
Cuba was a socialist party that became a communist island under the regime of Castro.
The only thing that is obvious on this thread is that we have a lot of under 25 people commenting who have not yet grasped how the world works.
We've all been there.
And to the poster who claims that capitalism 'privatizes' wealth and 'publicizes' losses: so you don't get any benefits from the iPhone that you can't stay away from?
'Profit' is not always about money.
I believe that socialism is much closer to Biblical ethics than Capitalism. Extreme capitalism is the personification of greed!
For all those claiming that socialism doesn't work, and to just read history books to see which is better: You would do well to find out just who writes the history books. Think about it.
"I think everyone on here has a sort of preconceived bias about socialism and communism and quickly associate them with a dictatorship."
Probably has something to do with the fact that both are inherently totalitarian dogmas which immediately lend themselves to dictatorships, oligarchies, repression, mass murder and imperialism, hence the last 150 years of human history.
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