This weeks Democratic primaries in Kentucky, New York, and Virginia saw a number of progressive challengers defeating moderate or establishment rivals. Of particular note were the victories of two insurgent candidates in New York: Jamaal Bowman, who defeated 16-term incumbent Eliot Engel, and Mondaire Jones, who triumphed over a crowded field in the 17th District to become one of the first openly gay black men ever elected to Congress. Jones joins Mehdi Hasan to discuss his victory. Then, Intercept D.C. Bureau Chief Ryan Grim joins Mehdi to place this weeks elections in historical context.
Mondaire Jones: I think the energy in this party is on the left. And I hope that people who are in power in this party realize that and bring us into the fold.
[Musical interlude.]
Mehdi Hasan: Welcome to Deconstructed, Im Mehdi Hasan.
The Squad looks like its set to grow on Capitol Hill. This week saw big historic wins for progressives in Democratic congressional primaries:
MJ: More people who have the lived experiences that would inform our policy discussions should be at the table of powerfighting tooth and nail for the things we say we care about as the Democratic Party.
MH: Thats Mondaire Jones, the Black, gay, Medicare-for-All-supporting son of a single mother, who won a primary in one of the wealthiest congressional districts in the country on Tuesday.
Hes my guest today.
So, how historic a moment are we in? Is the left ascendant in the Democratic Party right now?
Newscaster: In just a few hours, voters will head to the polls in New York, Virginia, and Kentucky, in a major test for the progressive movement.
Newscaster: Several powerful Democratic incumbents are facing challenges from the left.
Newscaster: Eliot Engel, 32-year incumbent, hes been there since 1988, hes getting trounced by Jamaal Bowman.
Newscaster: Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez overwhelmingly won her first primary challenge with more than 70 percent of the vote.
MH: It was a huge night for the New York left on Tuesday.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, AOC, perhaps with the exception of Bernie Sanders, the most famous leftist in this country, and who also happens to drive right-wingers up the wall more than any other woman in America, didnt just win her Democratic primary, she blew away her Wall Street-funded challenger, winning more than three times as many votes as her.
So what next for AOC?
Well, hopefully causing more trouble in the House and more aneurysms on Fox News over the next couple of years. But, come 2022, could we see her primary Senate Minority Leader, and Democratic Party compromiser-in-chief, Chuck Schumer in New York? Could she do to Schumer in a Senate primary what she did to Joe Crowley in that now-famous House primary in 2018?
And come 2024, could we even see an AOC presidential bid? Shell turn 35, the minimum age for the presidency, a month before the November 2024 election. Which is almost like a sign. Im just saying.
Now, you might say: Mehdi, youre getting carried away. But see: I do believe the left has real energy in this country right now. Yes, Bernie Sanders lost the race for the Democratic presidential nomination to Mr. Establishment himself, Joe Biden but not before hed dispatched more than two dozen other Democratic candidates, and not before hed won millions of votes and a fair few races, including California, the biggest primary in the country.
Yeah, a self-proclaimed Democratic Socialist and Independent from Vermont came second in the Democratic presidential race, twice in 2016 and again in 2020. Plus, his signature policy, Medicare for All, was backed by a majority or plurality of Democratic primary voters in almost every state.
As Noam Chomsky pointed out to me in a recent Intercept live interview:
Noam Chomsky: I dont agree that the senators efforts in 2016 and 2020 were a failure. I think they were an enormous success. We should recognize the success
MH: Yes.
NC: and build on it.
MH: Agreed.
NC: And the way to build on it is exactly the way he said in his last words. The movement continues. If it does, candidates will emerge and say, Im your leader.
MH: Perhaps one of those future leaders is among those progressive Democrats who ran amazing insurgent races on Tuesday.
In Kentucky, where Amy McGrath, the handpicked candidate of the Democratic establishment, who was supposed to be a shoo-in for the Democratic senate nomination there well, she faced progressive state lawmaker Charles Booker who became a bit of a star in recent weeks after joining the protests against police brutality and racism, while McGrath stayed at home.
Booker was endorsed by both Bernie and AOC, and as of right now, at the time of recording this show, he was down less than 10 points against McGrath but thats not including results from the states two largest, most Democratic counties, Jefferson and Fayette home to Louisville, which includes Bookers own State House District. Its not looking great for McGrath.
In New Yorks 16th Congressional District, progressive teacher and activist Jamaal Bowman, endorsed by everyone from AOC to Bernie to Elizabeth Warren, and backed by Justice Democrats, the group that helped give us AOC to begin with, defeated or should I say, wiped the floor with 16-term incumbent Democrat Eliot Engel, chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Iraq War-supporter, hardcore centrist Democrat. Engel was endorsed by Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton hell, even by the Congressional Black Caucus. No one personifies the Democratic establishment more than Eliot Engel, and he lost to Bowman, who made clear his own progressive politics in a pretty inspiring election night address:
Jamaal Bowman: Poverty is not a result of children and families who dont work hard. Our children and families work as hard as anyone else. Poverty is by political design, and its rooted in a system that has been fractured and corrupt and rotten from its core from the inception of America, especially over the last several decades. So poverty, and the impact of poverty on our children, and dealing with issues of institutional racism, and sexism, and classism, and xenophobia, and everything that keeps the majority of us oppressed is what we designed this campaign to fight against.
MH: I happened to interview Jamaal Bowman earlier this month, again, for an Intercept live interview, and he was very impressive and didnt shy away from the big bad s-word either:
MH: Are you a socialist, people want to know? You know, youve been endorsed by AOC and Bernie Sanders, two of the most famous socialists in the country.
JB: Yes. Im an educator. It just so happens my policy aligns with socialism. I guess Im a socialist. [Laughs.] Im a progressive, left-leaning, someone that fights for human rights. I was never big on the labels at the beginning of this race. I identify as an educator, and as a Black man in America. But my policies align with those of a socialist, so I guess that makes me a socialist. All good.
MH: Then theres New Yorks 17th Congressional District, home to Bill and Hillary Clinton, where another 16-term centrist incumbent and Iraq War-supporter Nita Lowey announced her retirement last October, after she was challenged from the left by 33-year-old, son of a single mother, Black, gay, progressive, ex-Obama Department of Justice lawyer Mondaire Jones.
Jones was then thrown into an open primary race against, among others, a former federal prosecutor who spent more than $4 million of his own money on his candidacy; a former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under Obama and a cable news favorite; and a prominent New York state senator.
Jones, though, had the support of nearly every major progressive politician: Bernie, AOC, Elizabeth Warren, Ayanna Pressley, the Congressional Progressive Caucus.
And on Tuesday night, while the official result couldnt be declared because all of the mail-in ballots that still need to be counted, it became very clear from his lead that he had defeated all of his rivals and is now heading to Congress next January as one of the first two Black gay men ever to serve on Capitol Hill, the importance of which he made clear in his unofficial victory speech on Tuesday night:
MJ: And so this is for Barbara Jordan, that powerful voice in the United States House of Representatives who could not live an authentic life. This is for Bayard Rustin, the architect of the March on Washington, who could not publicly be associated with Martin Luther King because of the scandal of who he loved. This is for Harvey Milk, who literally died as a pioneer for people like me. I am so grateful to the folks on whose shoulders I stand.
MH: And Im delighted to say that man of the moment, Mondaire Jones, joins me now from New York.
Mondaire, thanks for coming on Deconstructed.
MJ: Thank you so much for having me. Its a pleasure to be here.
MH: Congratulations on your big win though its, of course, not officially confirmed yet. Tell me, Mondaire: youre 33 years old, youve never held elected office before. Why did you decide to run for Congress?
MJ: Yeah, you know, I decided to run for congress because for me, policy is personal. I grew up in Section 8 housing and on food stamps. And my young, single mom still had to work multiple jobs just to put food on the table for us.
So when we have these policy discussions at the federal level, about the $15 minimum wage being absolutely necessary, thats a need I know to be true based on my personal experience. And I think we need more people in Congress for whom policy is personal. I think we get better policy outcomes that way; its the reason why in a crowded Democratic primary, I was still the only person talking about criminal justice reform, and policing reform, well before the events of the last few weeks with the murder of George Floyd. And it shouldnt be like that; more people who have the lived experiences that would inform our policy discussions should be at the table of power, fighting tooth and nail for the things that we say we care about as the Democratic Party.
MH: Very well put there. Whats fascinating is that youre, as you say, youre from this non-white working class background, son of a single mother, but you went to Harvard Law, and you now have managed to win a primary in one of the wealthiest districts in the country, New York 17. What do you think was the secret to your electoral success there?
MJ: I think it was speaking with with genuineness and with a message that was compelling. Right? One of my opponents obsessed over Russia another of my opponents ran on prosecuting Donald Trump, which strangely presumes that Trump gets reelected in the fall, whereas I have had a consistent economic message throughout, made even more resonant by COVID-19, in the midst of the economic devastation that were experiencing right now.
And I do think that people found my life story to be quintessentially the American dream. And I think, as Ive said to other people, that people want to be inspired. This is the United States Congress, people want to be inspired by their member of Congress. And Ive said, Im not running just to be one of 435 people. Im running to provide transformational leadership in American politics.
MH: And how much do you think your win, and Jamaal Bowmans win in the 16th District in New York, was a result also of the moment were in, COVID-19, disproportionately hitting Black and brown communities, Black Lives Matter protesters on the streets as you mentioned? Was this just your moment?
MJ: You know, the thing is we were on our way to victory even before the death of George Floyd and the protests nationally.
MH: Interesting.
MJ: But it is certainly the case that a number of people who perhaps had never given serious consideration to the idea became of the opinion that more people like myself should be allowed to speak with moral clarity on the need for racial justice. Right? That it shouldnt just be Hakeem Jeffries on the House side, and Tim Scott and Kamala Harris and Cory Booker on the Senate side; that we need
MH: Yes.
MJ: more people who are going to be forceful on that issue.
MH: And you and, I believe, Ritchie Torres are on course to become the first-ever gay Black men elected to Congress. How big a deal is that for you and the LGBTQ community, especially because parts of the Black community, especially the church-going Black community in the South, like my own Muslim community, is often seen as being rife with homophobia?
MJ: You know, in the 244-year history of the United States there has never been an openly gay, Black member of congress. Man or woman. And, you know, growing up poor, Black, and gay in Section 8 housing, if I had been able to see someone quite like myself in Congress, it would have been direct evidence of the fact that things really do get better when you get older. For me, that was not true.
But for so many people today, because of my candidacy and the candidacy of my friend, Ritchie Torres, you know, I know from the messages that people were sending me on social media platforms well before the events of yesterday, that it is making a difference, that theyre telling me young and old that it gives them inspiration to see an openly gay Black candidate running for Congress to live their own authentic lives. And Im happy to provide that representation.
MH: Youre a big supporter in terms of policy terms of a Green New Deal. But even if Joe Biden wins the presidency, and even if he comes around to backing a Green New Deal both big ifs youre still not gonna be able to get the Green New Deal bill through Congress, certainly not through the Senate. So a lot of people say, Theres no point going for the radical option, no matter how justified it is, no matter how necessary it is, if you cant get it into law. People say, youre going to have to compromise. What do you say to them?
MJ: I think that we should not be defeating ourselves before we get to the negotiating table. I think that a Green New Deal, in the form of legislation, because, of course, right now its a resolution, could pass the Senate if we flip the Senate into Democratic control. But, of course, Id rather get something done than nothing at all. So lets get to that point when we get there.
In the meantime, Im fighting for the most ambitious thing that we can do, which happens, from my perspective, to be the necessary thing for us to do. Weve got 10 years left, according to this UN IPCC report, before irreparable damage to the planet. We have to mobilize the federal government to decarbonize our economy. And I hope that we can work in concert with other countries to do the same thing globally.
MH: Do you apply that same kind of thinking to Medicare for All as well, which is something you support but again, many in your party see it as a kind of utopian pipe dream?
MJ: Medicare for All is now a mainstream policy view, a majority of the American people support it. And so does my member of Congress. In fact, I was the only person, unfortunately, in my Democratic primary who supported it. And I think voters saw that it was a huge part of my message.
And I met a number of people who said, You know, what, youre the only person supporting healthcare as a human right. Because the other stuff the other stuff that people are proposing would leave over 10 million people uninsured in this country. So Im supporting you.
And so I think its going to be increasingly difficult for Democrats who dont support Medicare for All to explain why it is that they dont, because, of course, we know that Medicare for All would result in cost savings, even as it would insure literally everybody and expand coverage in terms of the things that are insured.
MH: Youre right, it is a no-brainer.
Youre 33 years old; youre going to be one of the youngest members of Congress. How much is the divide in the Democratic Party today, more generational, even, than it is ideological? I mean, theres you and AOC and Ilhan Omar in your 30s, theres Pelosi, Hoyer, Clyburn in their 70s.
MJ: I think its mostly ideological. I look at someone like Ed Markey, right?
MH: Yeah.
MJ: One of the senior members of Congress in the Senate, the author of the Green New Deal, or at least the lead sponsor, I should say, in the Senate. And so, and, of course, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, are, you know, are seasoned are seasoned in our politics. And so I, I think that this is more about an ideological difference than it is about age.
Now, dont get me wrong, disproportionately young people tend to be progressive. And we tend not to be as patient as other people are, as as as we face these existential intractable problems. You know, and other people whove been around for longer offer modest proposals. So, so I think that I think that there is a link there, that maybe its inextricable, but, but really, it is about a belief system, and Im happy to be a champion for that belief system. As I said last night, it is the idea that government has never worked for everyone; its only ever worked for a subset of the American people.
MH: A lot of people on Capitol Hill in Congress arent fans of big change; they like small change or no change. Given Nancy Pelosi hasnt had the greatest of relationships with the Squad with AOC and co., shes done a lot of whats called hippie punching, a lot of, kind of, snarky sarcastic criticisms of the left, of them. Theres been some tensions between the two sides over the last couple of years. What do you think your relationship with Speaker Pelosi will be in the next Congress, assuming shes still House Speaker next year?
MJ: Im gonna have a fantastic relationship with Speaker Pelosi, and Im going to have a fantastic relationship with my colleagues in the Caucus. You know, Im running to get things done. And it doesnt mean that Im not going to disagree with people in my own party sometimes. But those are going to be disagreements that are respectful, and theyre going to be genuine, and in earnest. And theres nothing wrong with having policy debates, even amongst friends, and we can do that in a way where we can all come together at the end. But Im not going to go to Congress and just be a yes person. That would be a great disservice to people in my district and to the American people.
MH: Do you think looking at Jamaal Bowmans result, looking at your result, maybe Charles Bookers in Kentucky, were still waiting on it. Given the fact that your race was an open race between several candidates after Nita Lowey retired, but youd already challenged Nita Lowey, you were going to primary her had she not retired. Given that result, given the kind of the trend, should incumbent Democrats, establishment Democrats, centrist democrats, whatever you want to call them, should they be worried now that theyre going to be primaried from the left, that theyre going to lose their seats to the left?
MJ: I dont think anyone should be worried about losing their job if theyre doing what theyre supposed to be doing.
MH: [Laughs.] Good answer.
MJ: Im not worried about being primaried in the future because I know that Im going to be the best darn representative that this district has ever seen. And, and more than that, that Im going to provide the best representation that it could ever have. And so if someone wants to step up and challenge me, then go at it. Im not afraid of that. And I think that people who are doing their job should not be afraid of it.
I just defeated the son of a billionaire, a senior Defense Department official, a popular New York State Assembly member, a well-known New York State Senator, and the list goes on. And so, you know, and Im a guy whos never held elected office.
And so Im just really grateful for the fact that I have a message and a character that inspires people, and that inspires trust, in particular, people. And thats, thats what Im going to be when Im in Congress, and I hope other people will join me in that.
MH: So you talk about other people joining you. For some people, this insurgent primary wave from the left, which kicked off of course with AOC in 2018 or so in New York, it looks to some people like the Democrats own version of the Tea Party, but from the left. Is that a fair description in your view?
MJ: No, its not. I think its a disgusting comparison. And you know, the Tea Party and the fringe wing of the Republican Party in general, which is increasingly taking over the Party, including the Oval Office, is a is a tragedy in American politics.
MH: Yes.
MJ: It is a stain on the fabric of this country. It is a force that actively undermines our moral character as a society. Progressives want to make sure that everyone can live in dignity in the richest nation in the history of the world. I dont think we ought to be comparing people who want to ensure healthcare as a human right to people who openly embrace white supremacists.
MH: [Laughs.] I completely agree with you. I think people who make the comparison probably are not talking about the substance, theyre talking about the the way in which people who were not dominant within the party came along and started knocking down incumbents, Eric Cantor famously back in, I think, 2014-2015 when he was defeated by a Tea Party challenger.
And I think when, you know, when you look at Jamaal Bowman has just knocked out the Chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee who has been in Congress for over 30 years, people say, Wow, this is unprecedented.
MJ: Absolutely. Absolutely. And increasingly, I think, laypersons are of the view that we need more people like myself and Mr. Bowman in Congress, and Im really grateful that average people are not taking their cues from Democratic committee members, but rather from from the candidates themselves as they evaluate the differences among whats being offered to them.
MH: Did you have a candidate in the presidential race? Did you endorse anyone?
MJ: I did not endorse anyone, but Ive been endorsed by three. [Laughs.] Elizabeth Warren, Julin Castro, and Bernie Sanders have all endorsed my campaign.
MH: A very good trio to be endorsed by, Ill say, I mean, Bernie Sanders obviously lost, in the end to Joe Biden, but he did defeat a fair few big names along the way. Theres a debate now about where the energy is now in the Democratic Party. Is it on the left? Is it with the moderates? Where do you think the energy in your party is right now?
MJ: I think the energy in this party is on the left, and I hope that people who are in power in this Party realize that and bring us into the fold, and integrate integrate us. You know, I mean, Joe Biden has a real opportunity here. I have tremendous respect for him; I worked in his administration. He has a real opportunity to unite the left, so that they can feel inspired to go out to vote for him, right?
I mean, its one thing look, obviously, Im supporting Joe Biden. But there are a lot of people
MH: Yeah.
MJ: who I cant control how they feel.
MH: Yes.
MJ: And theyre looking to him to show leadership in any number of areas where the American people certainly feel like he should be more left than he is.
MH: If Joe Biden rang you up, Mondaire, and said, Give me one suggestion based on your own campaign of what I can do to get left-wing people, young people inspired by my candidacy, what would you say to him?
MJ: I would say: Start coming out in support of progressive policies.
MH: Yeah. Do you think hes gonna do it?
MJ: I think he will. I think these advisory councils or commissions that hes been creating
MH: Yes.
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The Rise of the Left (With Mondaire Jones) - The Intercept