CNN’s Defterios: Trump ‘is threatening the core of democracy’, Alexis Papachelas | Kathimerini – www.ekathimerini.com
I think Donald Trump kind of sees the world in the same way as President Erdogan, taking a tough line, kicking up some dust, being the rebel in the region, Defterios says. And this could strain relations with Greece, and within NATO itself.
In an interview with Kathimerini held before a final verdict was given on the US presidential race, CNN journalist John Defterios stressed incumbent Donald Trumps determination to challenge the result in court, disregarding the perils of such a move.
Defterios explained Trumps enduring popularity among the American electorate, underscoring the fact that his supporters demonstrate dedication that is cult-like.
In the same interview, he predicted that instability in the Middle East and the Eastern Mediterranean will continue.
Why do you think Trump is still so popular? Thats one question thats on everybodys mind today.
Its a question I get all the time, in terms of people saying, Where does this support come from? We have to recognize that the US is extremely polarized. If you look at the map from the center of the country, from the Midwest, and then move down to the right and an arch down to the southeast, this is the Trump base. I think this is a backlash against globalization over the last 25 years and the transition from the GATT treaty to the World Trade Organization.
The developed economies with the US included here didnt prepare their citizenry for the competition thats coming from China and the developing world. So the Trump base has been communicated with this idea of Make America Great Again. The real translation is, Lets protect the American worker again and throw up barriers and raise a lot of heat with China, which has not benefited the US economybut it makes this base feel better.
Now this is a complex issue, but the bottom line is this is the group that was widely addicted during the opioid crisis in the Midwest, in the south of rural America (they're) very passionate, almost a cult-like following to Donald Trump. So these are the red states. They have this perception that he delivers right across the board on the economy. I think its more of a sales pitch than the reality of what we have today. But their loyalty is because he puts this at the top of the agenda, communicating with these people, and the economy, before the Covid-19 shock. How do you explain the fact that while he has mishandled the Covid crisis, this seems to have had no impact on a large part of the population? As an American its a tough thing to explain, but it comes down to free liberties. They have couched this debate, about wearing a mask for example, with the removal of a right to freedom, to even the right to bear arms. Nobody wants anybody to mess around with their ammunition and arms control and gun control. They think this is taking something away.
And again, the president has said, I dont want to lock down the economy and I want these people to be able to work again, so its been framed not as a health issue and America has the highest death rate per population, and also the highest infection rate per population but more Youre encroaching on my freedoms, I dont like big government, I dont like high taxes, I dont want anybody to tell me what I should do with my guns.
And hes framed that into the debate when it comes to the health crisis as well. Now, I think we have another crisis in the United States, partially because the elites and leadership over the last generation have not ever communicated with this base. It started with Fox News and seeing that Main Street America was ignored. And they lit a torch going back 20 years ago with the development of Fox and you have to give credit to Donald Trump for latching on to the movement if you will, speaking their language, even though hes a billionaire by trade, was born with a silver spoon. They identify because of the language hes using about the hardworking lower class of America.
We also have an education crisis with this working class because they cant compete in the world arena because they dont have the right training or education. So theyre suffering due to the transition of globalization, but its couched now under the Trump mantra as making America great again. Lets protect the American uneducated worker by throwing up trade barriers, cutting taxes for companies to grow, and then driving up the employment rate. Hes not been a fiscal conservative in the real traditional sense with Republicans, but his base doesnt care. Thats reality.
At this point, it seems that this election is going to be dragged out probably in the courts. How do you view this? Is it really dangerous for the standing of the US worldwide? Some people are even talking about some sort of civil strife within the country. How do you see all that?
We saw the electoral vote count led by Joe Biden, so this is why Donald Trump immediately put out a press statement saying that this is a shame or a fraud against the American people again communicating with his base. Almost an alarm, to say You stand ready, as he did with the Proud Boys. They have armed militias. So I dont want to overplay it to you, but there is a real threat.
If it does not go in the direction that Donald Trump is looking for after he does exercise all the might of the court system, even taking it to the Supreme Court, he has a huge advantage today. It could lead to civil unrest. Every vote counts. There is a threat against democracy if, for some reason, the courts decide that the counting after election day does not count. But it doesnt make any sense at all because we shifted because of Covid-19 90 million voters going in for a mainland ballot. The Trump administration through the different governors stopped the vote counting before the election so they couldnt get those votes counted because theyre heavily Democratic, so it was a very calculating move. And then, after saying that if you count after the polls closed on November 3 they dont count, it doesnt make any sense whatsoever.
But hes really threatening the core of democracy and the voting system. He doesnt like structure, he doesnt like the international architecture, but... he spends most of his time trying to break the structures. So again, he serves as the rebel supporting white working-class America, and they love the bellicose language that he uses.
I gather from what youre saying that even if Trump is defeated, Trumpism will be around for a while, right?
I dont think so. In fact if Trump is defeated here, I think this would be a flash in the pan, and the Republican Party can reset to the center again. Theres a danger here if Trump wins, and Ill just put out a different proposal here. If Trump wins, that means the Democratic Party would lunge to the left, because the criticism of Joe Biden is that he was playing the centrist card, trying to win the Rust Belt states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio. If indeed Trump stays in office, expect the AOCs and the Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warrens to move the party to the left, which I think strategically would be a mistake. Weve learned the lesson though: The victories are won in the middle. And you hear a lot of Republican veterans say its time for a Republican reset. I tell you, the next two weeks is going to be very, very uncertain, which I think is going to wake up the financial markets by the way at the same time put in doubt the structure and leadership of the United States.
What do you mean by that?
People are suggesting that China and Russia were agitating the system and interfering on social media platforms in support of Joe Biden. I think to the contrary here. I think the two if you take the Chinese and Russian model if they can agitate the system, it provides instability for the US model of democracy. So whether its Donald Trump or Joe Biden right now, it allows the Chinese and the Russians, for example, to take a step back. And I understand they did intervene but, if thats the case and this is the premise that people are using that allows their models to look strong for the future, that democracy is waning, that liberalism is on the wane right now. If you take a look at the UK system with Brexit, one would say the same: They marched to Brexit. Theyre trying to negotiate an exit. The Tory party didnt have a good response to Covid-19. It looks like democracy in many states around the world those in the G7 are afraid right now, and this is a real challenge to the largest economy, what was the global leader in the world if you look at the model, if it goes through this exercise, a challenging of the vote by a renegade Donald Trump.
How do you think this election is going to impact the Middle East, the Eastern Mediterranean, and more specifically Greece and Turkey? As you know, we have a big problem with Turkey around here. Trump seems to have a very close, special relationship with Erdogan. How do you see things developing in that respect?
OK, lets cover the kind of the wider Middle East its almost monopolar, if you will. Here in the Gulf states where Im sitting in Abu Dhabi, six Gulf states look at Iran with the exception of Oman, which tries to remain neutral and they say that is the number one issue for them and thats why Donald Trump has supported them very transactionally on defense sales of US equipment to the Gulf states. So that was a transactional move. Joe Biden said that he would come back and re-engage with the Iranians, probably not to the level that President Obama was doing ahead of the dismantling of that agreement by Donald Trump. So thats the key issue here. Would Joe Biden re-engage with Iran? That would change the mix. The Abraham accords will make it more difficult for Joe Biden or any other US leader to put a wedge between the Gulf states and Israel in the future because they actually see the future against Iran, the same. So I would expect a much more moderate package from Joe Biden. If Trump stays in I would expect more pressure, and potentially a number of sources worry about a surprise attack against Iran. A future of Trump in office I think raises insecurity in the region as well.
When it comes to the Eastern Mediterranean, Ive had sources in the intelligence community from Eastern Europe say it is the most dangerous spot in the world right now, which raised eyebrows for me two years ago, and its played out exactly as this person was suggesting because theres gas assets at stake here. I think Donald Trump kind of sees the world in the same way as President [Recep Tayyip] Erdogan, taking a tough line, kicking up some dust, being the rebel in the region. And this could strain relations with Greece, and within NATO itself. So thats the real danger. But I think in favor of Greece when it comes to the Eastern Mediterranean this is a strong alliance. The way I see it, Israel, Egypt, Cyprus, Greece, backing from France, Chancellor [Angela] Merkel backing the Greek position, ready to serve as a mediator if this thing needs to come to a close, it works. I think if Joe Biden came in, I think hed be actually much more engaged in the Eastern Mediterranean, and he would try to find a solution. I think Donald Trump would never challenge Erdogan, or Vladimir Putin for that matter. I think this could drag into a very dangerous direction.
More:
CNN's Defterios: Trump 'is threatening the core of democracy', Alexis Papachelas | Kathimerini - http://www.ekathimerini.com
- Francis Fukuyama: The Year of Elections Has Been Good for Democracy - Foreign Affairs Magazine - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- The forces of loneliness can cause political instability. And threaten democracy | V (formerly Eve Ensler) - The Guardian - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Democracy Center Renovation Further Delayed as Historical Commission Approves Landmark Study - Harvard Crimson - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Supporting credible elections to advance democracy globally in 2024 and beyond - ReliefWeb - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Harris must defeat Trump to save the democracy thats her job - Marquette Mining Journal - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Mathews: Democracy champions should stop fighting each other - VC Star - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Judges may soon have to run for election in Mexico. Critics say thats bad news for its democracy - CNN - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Erwin Chemerinsky on the need for a new US constitution: Our democracy is at grave risk - The Guardian - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Introduction: Securing elections, democracy, and the information ecosystem in a critical political year - Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Review of Michiko Kakutanis The Great Wave: Adventures in democracy - The Hindu - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- The Wests Undermining of Democracy - RealClearDefense - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Germany Before the Nazis: A Democracy That Didnt Need to Fail - The New York Times - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Social Media Influencer, Leigh McGowan, Educates Her Audience About Democracy And The Importance Of Voting. - Forbes - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Putin is at war with democracy, and democracy must win - Washington Times - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- A new path for Moldova starts at the ballot box Democracy and society - IPS Journal - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Voting and the Right to Vote: Fighting for Democracy - LA Progressive - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Latin Americas Achilles heel: An interview with expert Dr. Dinorah Azpuru, on the rule of law, democracy and democratic education in the region. -... - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Democracy is something we have to fight for: A conversation with Suzette Brooks Masters - The Fulcrum - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Can Fandoms Save Democracy? An Interview With the Organizers Behind Swifties for Kamala - Vogue - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Connecting democracy and climate change in Asia and the Pacific - International IDEA - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Letter from the Editor: Keeping the fire of democracy alive - North Texas Daily - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Unpacking the Conspiracy of Saving Democracy - Minding The Campus - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Georgias Democracy in Peril: Election Looms Amid Rising Threats - Democracy Docket - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Opinion: The current US Supreme Court is a threat to democracy, equality, and justice - Hartford Courant - September 6th, 2024 [September 6th, 2024]
- Project 2025 could be the end of America as we know it enter Democracy 2026 - The Hill - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- What Im Reading: Why Democracy Erodes From the Top - The New York Times - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- Opinion | Thailands democracy takes two steps back - The Washington Post - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- The Risks of Japans Aging Democracy - The Diplomat - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- NYU Gallatin Galleries Presents The End of Democracy in Five Acts September 9October 14, 2024 - NYU - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- California Democracy in Context and Practice: Beacon of Hope and Cautionary Tale - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- 'We are doing democracy here': Young voters focus on being polite rather than polarized - NBC News - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- Black women voters strongly back Harris in an election they view as crucial for democracy - The 19th* - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- Unpacking the right's "50-year plot" to wreck democracy and why it might work - Salon - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- Venezuelans gather in Houston to fight for democracy - FOX 26 Houston - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- With Democracy Dollars paused, Oakland has just $155,000 in public financing for candidates - The Oaklandside - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- Muhammad Yunus must try to rebuild democracy in Bangladesh - The Economist - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- Leaning Into Conflict: Finding Ways to Connect Through Discursive Democracy - PA Times - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- Dozens of Civil-Rights and Journalism Groups Urge the Media to Report on Rising Authoritarianism and Threats to Democracy - Free Press - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- Bangladeshs New Democracy Under Threat From Flood of Misinformation - The Diplomat - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- Is the US Still a Democracy? 'Yes and No,' Says Bernie Sanders - Common Dreams - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- Jill Long Thompson: Bipartisanship is essential to democracy - Daily Journal - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- Pity US voters their choice of leaders. Surely democracy is better than this? - The Guardian - July 24th, 2024 [July 24th, 2024]
- I took a bullet for democracy, Trump says at first rally since assassination attempt - The Times of Israel - July 24th, 2024 [July 24th, 2024]
- Coups, crackdowns and chaos: art inspired by democracy and the despots who overthrew it - The Guardian - July 24th, 2024 [July 24th, 2024]
- More people becoming dissatisfied with the function of democracy, survey finds - Scripps News - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- Ahead of UK election, dissatisfaction with economy and democracy - Pew Research Center - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- No debate: RFK Jr. is a threat to Democracy - Salon - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- This Is What Democracy Looks Like: Democracy Center Affiliates Rally to Protest Closing | News - Harvard Crimson - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- Rising dissatisfaction with democracy in high-income nations - Pew Research Center - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- Rep. Pressley addresses threats to democracy at Juneteenth celebration - Martha's Vineyard Times - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- Knitting together to foster conversations on democracy - Concord Monitor - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- The End of Populism in the World's Largest Democracy? With Shruti Kapila - New Lines Magazine - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- Deteriorating public trust is a threat to democracy | GUEST COMMENTARY - Baltimore Sun - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- Juneteenth: Historian Clint Smith on Reckoning with Legacy of U.S. Slavery - Democracy Now! - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- Candidates are almost completely neglecting a top issue for Colorado voters Colorado Newsline - Colorado Newsline - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- Give European democracy a chance. An enlarged Europe turns twenty - New Eastern Europe - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- Ham-fisted House resolutions attacking direct democracy efforts may have backfired - Arkansas Times - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- Gambling on Democracy - The Dispatch - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- High Noon 2024: Northern Debate on Youth, Preparedness, Democracy and Moral in the Arts - High North News - June 24th, 2024 [June 24th, 2024]
- Public education and maintaining democracy [letter] | Letters To The Editor | lancasteronline.com - LNP | LancasterOnline - June 2nd, 2024 [June 2nd, 2024]
- Voters sound off on disinformation and democracy - theday.com - June 2nd, 2024 [June 2nd, 2024]
- South Africa's 'Born Frees' Are Disillusioned With Democracy - New Lines Magazine - June 2nd, 2024 [June 2nd, 2024]
- Analysis | The Texas GOP takes the party's hostility to democracy to a new level - The Washington Post - June 2nd, 2024 [June 2nd, 2024]
- Manchin to keep Energy gavel after dumping Democratic Party - E&E News by POLITICO - June 2nd, 2024 [June 2nd, 2024]
- GUEST APPEARANCE: Threats to democracy both local, not-so-local - Finger Lakes Times - June 2nd, 2024 [June 2nd, 2024]
- Subverting democracy and the fate of the Jews - JNS.org - JNS.org - June 2nd, 2024 [June 2nd, 2024]
- Trump's conviction is an assault on democracy - UnHerd - June 2nd, 2024 [June 2nd, 2024]
- Hong Kong finds 14 pro-democracy activists guilty of subversion - The Washington Post - June 2nd, 2024 [June 2nd, 2024]
- Tomashi Jackson Probes American Democracy in Her Multilayered Work - ARTnews - June 2nd, 2024 [June 2nd, 2024]
- Republican Election Officials Support Radical Theory to Upend American Elections - Democracy Docket - June 2nd, 2024 [June 2nd, 2024]
- Civil disobedience and calls for financial divestments 'have an important place in democracy'but many schools also ... - Fortune - June 2nd, 2024 [June 2nd, 2024]
- If You Can Keep It: NBC, Social Media, And Preserving Democracy : 1A - NPR - April 1st, 2024 [April 1st, 2024]
- A Simple US Step Can Help Protect Another Imprisoned Democracy Activist in Russia - Just Security - April 1st, 2024 [April 1st, 2024]
- How 'Do Your Own Research' Might Have Doomed Democracy - GQ - April 1st, 2024 [April 1st, 2024]
- 3/27/24 - Is Democracy In The U.S. Working? It's A Toss-Up, But Voters Don't See It Ending In Their Lifetimes ... - Quinnipiac University Poll - April 1st, 2024 [April 1st, 2024]
- 'Duty to democracy': Kansas newspaper files lawsuit after police raided the newsroom - Yahoo! Voices - April 1st, 2024 [April 1st, 2024]
- Will RFK Jr. and Other Third-Party Candidates Help Doom Democracy? Mother Jones - Mother Jones - April 1st, 2024 [April 1st, 2024]
- India slams U.S. and Germany over Kejriwal arrest criticism - The Washington Post - April 1st, 2024 [April 1st, 2024]
- Trump's Courts Can't Stop the Battle to Restore Democracy - Shepherd Express - April 1st, 2024 [April 1st, 2024]
- Instagram and Threads are limiting political content. This is terrible for democracy - The Conversation Indonesia - April 1st, 2024 [April 1st, 2024]