Jan. 6 panel piecing together details of final Trump-Pence call – POLITICO
That gap of information looms as the House panel works to finalize a minute-by-minute account of Trumps actions on Jan. 6, when he pushed Pence to prevent the transfer of power to Biden. Committee Chair Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) has remained publicly undecided about whether to seek testimony from Pence himself, noting that Pences closest advisers have cooperated fulsomely. But investigators must also confront whether Pences side of that conversation for which no Pence advisers were present is significant enough to ask him to fill in the blanks.
Its unlikely the committee will attempt to force Pence to testify. There are imposing legal obstacles for subpoenaing a former vice president, and the panel considers Pence a witness, not a target of their probe. Whether they ask for his voluntary help is another question.
An hour after the call, Pence would publicly declare what hed privately told Trump for weeks: He would not assert unprecedented power to overturn the election. Barring some unforeseen twist, Joe Biden would be the next president. Aides who had been working all morning to finalize Pences statement delayed it to give Trump a chance to address his supporters, but the decision had long been settled.
But Pences words to Trump could be significant as congressional and criminal probes of Jan. 6 advance. A federal judge has concluded that Trump more likely than not criminally conspired to obstruct Congress proceedings to finalize Bidens victory. He described Trumps pressure campaign against Pence as a coup in search of a legal theory. The select committee has also argued that Trump committed multiple crimes as he leaned on Pence to subvert the election.
Jan. 6 call logs obtained by the select committee, revealed last month by The Washington Post and CBS, show that Trump first tried to reach Pence at 9:02 a.m. But the two men did not connect. The operator, according to those call logs, left a message at 9:15 a.m. Trump had already twice tweeted that morning that Pence had the power to stop Congress from finalizing Bidens victory.
The logs dont reflect Trumps subsequent call with Pence, but a private schedule investigators obtained from the National Archives suggests the two men connected at 11:20 a.m. while Pence was in his residence and Trump was in the Oval Office. Pences chief of staff Marc Short and chief counsel Greg Jacob told the select committee that they remembered Pence receiving the call from Trump at about that time.
[A]t some point during our meeting a military aide knocked on the door and said the President was holding for the Vice President, at which point he excused himself to take the call, Short recalled.
How long was he gone? a committee attorney asked.
My best guess would be 15, 20 minutes, Short replied.
Upon his return, did he share any details of the conversation with you? the investigator asked.
No, Short said.
Jacob also recalled that Pence left the room to take Trumps call and agreed Pence didnt brief them on it when he came back.
The Vice Presidents rule was never to divulge the contents of his conversations with the President, Jacob testified.
Shortly after hanging up, Pence traveled to the Capitol to preside over the joint session of Congress.
Pences apparent privacy hasnt stopped accounts of the call from emerging. Theyve just all come from people who only heard Trumps side of it.
The same private schedule showing Trumps call with Pence also reveals who entered the Oval Office just minutes earlier, a group that appeared to be present while Trump made his final push to pressure his vice president. The list includes Trumps adult children Ivanka, Donald Jr. and Eric, as well as Kimberly Guilfoyle, Donald Jr.s then-girlfriend. Also in the room were White House aide Keith Kellogg, chief of staff Mark Meadows and counsel Eric Herschmann. Kellogg, who testified to the select committee, said he recalled seeing Eric Trumps wife, Lara, in the vicinity, though shes not listed on the schedule.
Multiple people familiar with the testimony given to the select committee about the call offered a consistent account. One of those people granted anonymity to speak candidly said witnesses described the conversation as beginning relatively pleasantly, with Trump embracing the legal advice he was given about Pences ability to send the election back to the states.
Although people in the Oval Office couldnt hear him, Pence had clearly rejected Trumps entreaties, the person indicated. Witnesses have said listeners in the room were surprised because it was the first time they recalled Pence saying no to Trump. The call deteriorated and Trump grew frustrated.
A portion of Kelloggs testimony has become public in court filings and provided a similar recollection of Trumps side of the phone call. Kellogg said he couldnt hear Pences responses but remembered Trump pushing his vice president to embrace a fringe theory intended to stop Bidens victory: sending the election back to a handful of GOP-controlled state legislatures to appoint new presidential electors.
Kellogg said he presumed Pence rebuffed Trump because Trump seemed disappointed. He recalled Trump saying something to the effect of: Youre not tough enough to make the call.
I would say [he] was frustrated, Kellogg told the committee. He hung up. And after he hung up, we went right back to speech prep. He didnt get up, walk out, yell, throw things. He just said okay and went back to the speech discussion.
Kellogg also told the select committee that Ivanka Trump turned to him at the close of the call and said, Mike Pence is a good man.
Importantly, Ivanka Trump, Guilfoyle and Herschmann, the former Trump White House lawyer, have all recently testified to the select committee and were likely asked about their recollection of the call. Aides to all three did not respond to requests for comment.
But a harsher version of the exchange described by Kellogg has emerged in books and news reports.
You can either go down in history as a patriot or you can go down in history as a pussy, Trump said, according to an account reported by The New York Times days after the Jan. 6 attack.
Months later, Trump told ABC that he wouldnt dispute the Times account. I also said You can be Thomas Jefferson or you can be no Thomas Jefferson, and you turned out to be no Thomas Jefferson, Trump recalled to ABC.
The book Peril, by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, describes some of Pences pushback on the call, quoting him as telling Trump, Ill do my job. The comment reportedly prompted furious pushback from Trump.
The select committee has used those books as a rough guide for questioning witnesses, looking to confirm reported details. But its unclear whether the panel has collected more details on Pences final words to Trump that day.
Shortly after they hung up, Trump traveled to the Ellipse to deliver his remarks to the Stop the Steal rally he assembled in Washington to pressure Pence and Congress. He told the crowd that he had just spoken to Pence, whom he referenced a dozen times in his speech.
All Vice President Pence has to do is send it back to the states to recertify and we become president and you are the happiest people, Trump told the crowd.
I just spoke to Mike. I said, Mike, that doesnt take courage. What takes courage is to do nothing. That takes courage. And then were stuck with a president who lost the election by a lot and we have to live with that for four more years, Trump continued. Were just not going to let that happen.
Here is the original post:
Jan. 6 panel piecing together details of final Trump-Pence call - POLITICO
- Donald Trump Supporters Are Waking Up To The Reality Of Their Ballot Choices, And The Stories Are A Loooooot - Yahoo - February 20th, 2025 [February 20th, 2025]
- It took Donald Trump less than a decade to turn the US toward Putins Russia - CNN - February 20th, 2025 [February 20th, 2025]
- Are We Still Friends?: How Donald Trump Is Unraveling the Western Alliance - Vanity Fair - February 20th, 2025 [February 20th, 2025]
- Prediction: President Donald Trump Will Break His Social Security Promise and Propose Cuts -- Just Not in the Way You Might Think - The Motley Fool - February 16th, 2025 [February 16th, 2025]
- It Pays to Be a Friend of Donald Trump - The FP - February 16th, 2025 [February 16th, 2025]
- Donald Trump's 'Drastic' Funding Cuts Face Republican Opposition - Newsweek - February 16th, 2025 [February 16th, 2025]
- President Donald Trump Hangs His Framed Mugshot Outside the Oval Office - E! Online - E! NEWS - February 16th, 2025 [February 16th, 2025]
- Donald Trump wants states and cities to do as they are told - The Economist - February 16th, 2025 [February 16th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Wants Reciprocity in Trade: Heres a Closer Look - Council on Foreign Relations - February 16th, 2025 [February 16th, 2025]
- Interview with President Donald Trump airing ahead of Super Bowl 59: How to watch - USA TODAY - February 9th, 2025 [February 9th, 2025]
- Donald Trump set to make history at the Super Bowl. Heres why hell hate kick-off. - MLive.com - February 9th, 2025 [February 9th, 2025]
- Donald Trump golfs with Tiger Woods ahead of expected Super Bowl LIX visit - New York Post - February 9th, 2025 [February 9th, 2025]
- The Observer view: Vengeful and reckless, Donald Trump must not go unchallenged | Observer editorial - The Guardian - February 9th, 2025 [February 9th, 2025]
- Donald Trump will be at Super Bowl LIX, and he is not happy with the rules - PennLive - February 9th, 2025 [February 9th, 2025]
- Why Chip Roy is one of Donald Trump's biggest threats - POLITICO - January 24th, 2025 [January 24th, 2025]
- What did Donald Trump throw to his inauguration crowd? Find out in the news quiz - NPR - January 24th, 2025 [January 24th, 2025]
- We tracked California's lawsuits against Donald Trump. Here's where the state won and lost - CalMatters - January 24th, 2025 [January 24th, 2025]
- Contempt is a dangerous way to lead a country: here is the sermon that enraged Donald Trump | Mariann Edgar Budde - The Guardian - January 24th, 2025 [January 24th, 2025]
- Donald Trump finds new ways to flex presidential power after returning to the White House - The Associated Press - January 24th, 2025 [January 24th, 2025]
- What to know about President Donald Trump's order targeting the rights of transgender people - The Associated Press - January 24th, 2025 [January 24th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Jr. arrives in Greenland with a message from his dad: 'Were going to treat you well' - The Associated Press - January 7th, 2025 [January 7th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Jr. arrives in Greenland after his father said the U.S. should own the Arctic territory - ABC News - January 7th, 2025 [January 7th, 2025]
- Live updates: Carter casket arrives at Capitol; Donald Trump comments on Greenland, Gulf of Mexico - The Hill - January 7th, 2025 [January 7th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Jr arrives in Greenland as his father says Denmark give it up - Fox News - January 7th, 2025 [January 7th, 2025]
- Donald Trump fumes over flag flying at half-staff to honor Jimmy Carter during inauguration - Yahoo! Voices - January 3rd, 2025 [January 3rd, 2025]
- Donald Trump Will Be Sentenced on 34 Felony Convictions Before Inauguration - PEOPLE - January 3rd, 2025 [January 3rd, 2025]
- How Donald Trump reacted to Mike Johnson winning the House speaker vote - CBS News - January 3rd, 2025 [January 3rd, 2025]
- Letters to the Editor: A wokoso on the reasons more Latinos voted for Donald Trump - Los Angeles Times - January 3rd, 2025 [January 3rd, 2025]
- Mike Johnson reelected as House speaker with support from President-elect Donald Trump - USA TODAY - January 3rd, 2025 [January 3rd, 2025]
- Donald Trump Muddies the Waters in New Orleans - Vanity Fair - January 3rd, 2025 [January 3rd, 2025]
- Donald Trump to Be Sentenced Days Before Swearing In as President - Newsweek - January 3rd, 2025 [January 3rd, 2025]
- How anti-woke spin did the business for Donald Trump - The Guardian US - December 2nd, 2024 [December 2nd, 2024]
- Sen. Alex Padilla says Donald Trump has "made it no secret that he has it in for California - CBS News - December 2nd, 2024 [December 2nd, 2024]
- Donald Trump tests the system of checks and balances just weeks after election - USA TODAY - December 2nd, 2024 [December 2nd, 2024]
- Donald Trump threatens BRICS countries that move away from dollar - Semafor - December 2nd, 2024 [December 2nd, 2024]
- 2 Changes Donald Trump Wants to Make to Social Security: Will 2026 Be the Year They Become Reality? - Yahoo Finance - December 2nd, 2024 [December 2nd, 2024]
- Donald Trump reveals exclusively to The Post what he and Biden spoke about at DC meeting - New York Post - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- Republicans win 218 US House seats, giving Donald Trump and the party control of government - The Associated Press - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- Donald Trump Tells House Republicans He Won't Seek a Third Term Unless They 'Figure' Out a Way to Allow It - PEOPLE - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- Tesla is not the only winner under Donald Trump - The Economist - November 12th, 2024 [November 12th, 2024]
- Donald Trump Jr. Opts Out of White House to Join 1789 Capital - Bloomberg - November 12th, 2024 [November 12th, 2024]
- Opinion | Americans ordered up Donald Trump. The world will foot the bill. - The Washington Post - November 12th, 2024 [November 12th, 2024]
- Opinion: Reflections from across The Pond on Donald Trump's re-election - Palm Beach Post - November 12th, 2024 [November 12th, 2024]
- How could Donald Trump target the LGBTQ+ community? Project 2025 is a ready blueprint for discrimination - The Conversation - November 12th, 2024 [November 12th, 2024]
- Donald Trump has sweeping plans for a second administration. Heres what hes proposed - The Associated Press - November 12th, 2024 [November 12th, 2024]
- UK minister grilled over tweet branding Donald Trump a self-confessed groper - POLITICO Europe - November 12th, 2024 [November 12th, 2024]
- South Korean president practising golf to prepare for future meetings with Donald Trump - The Guardian - November 12th, 2024 [November 12th, 2024]
- Kamala Harris and Donald Trump hold dueling rallies in swing-state Michigan as it happened - The Guardian US - October 18th, 2024 [October 18th, 2024]
- I visited a small, struggling, climate-ravaged town in Louisiana. Why is Donald Trump certain to win here? - The Guardian US - October 18th, 2024 [October 18th, 2024]
- Donald Trump, Not at All Worried About Losing the Election, Demands Kamala Harris Be Forced Off the Campaign - Vanity Fair - October 18th, 2024 [October 18th, 2024]
- Donald Trump Just Insulted Every Autoworker in Michigan - The Nation - October 18th, 2024 [October 18th, 2024]
- Donald Trump doesnt sound too excited about asking Nikki Haley for help - Semafor - October 18th, 2024 [October 18th, 2024]
- Donald Trump Says Hell Ask Rupert Murdoch to Direct Fox News to Halt Negative Ads Against Him - Hollywood Reporter - October 18th, 2024 [October 18th, 2024]
- Donald Trump Says On Fox & Friends That Hes Meeting With Rupert Murdoch To Tell Him To Pull Negative Ads And Ban Horrible Democratic Critics -... - October 18th, 2024 [October 18th, 2024]
- Donald Trump Exhausted and Refusing Interviews: Report - The Daily Beast - October 18th, 2024 [October 18th, 2024]
- Donald Trump Shares Candid Thoughts on Harvey Weinstein: 'He Got Schlonged' - Newsweek - October 18th, 2024 [October 18th, 2024]
- Donald Trump says Apple boss Tim Cook called him with EU concerns - BBC.com - October 18th, 2024 [October 18th, 2024]
- A failed mic leaves Donald Trump pacing the stage in silence for nearly 20 minutes - Yahoo! Voices - October 18th, 2024 [October 18th, 2024]
- Why is Donald Trump campaigning in California, a state hes almost certain to lose? - The Associated Press - October 12th, 2024 [October 12th, 2024]
- Sebastian Stan on Losing Sleep Over Not Resembling Donald Trump, That Scene From The Apprentice and Fing Hard Action Movies: Tom Cruise Is Not a... - October 12th, 2024 [October 12th, 2024]
- That Sure Is One Way to Convince Young Men Not to Vote for Donald Trump - Slate - October 12th, 2024 [October 12th, 2024]
- The View co-hosts come out swinging at Donald Trump a day after he insulted them - The Associated Press - October 12th, 2024 [October 12th, 2024]
- Opinion | Yes, this is what Donald Trump really sounds like. No, you cannot ignore it. - The Washington Post - October 12th, 2024 [October 12th, 2024]
- Donald Trump Bemoans His Team Using Wrong Picture at Rally: 'So Stupid' - Newsweek - October 7th, 2024 [October 7th, 2024]
- Disaster politics: Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are the latest to deal with fallout - USA TODAY - October 7th, 2024 [October 7th, 2024]
- Donald Trump makes a theatrical return to Butler, scene of assassination attempt - The Guardian US - October 7th, 2024 [October 7th, 2024]
- Opinion | JD Vance Is Smoother but No Better Than Donald Trump - The New York Times - October 7th, 2024 [October 7th, 2024]
- Mike Johnson refuses to say Donald Trump lost the 2020 election to Joe Biden - USA TODAY - October 7th, 2024 [October 7th, 2024]
- Melania Trump says Donald Trump 'knew my position and my beliefs' on abortion 'since the day we met' - NBC News - October 7th, 2024 [October 7th, 2024]
- How Donald Trump Jr. Became the Crown Prince of MAGA World - The Wall Street Journal - October 7th, 2024 [October 7th, 2024]
- Donald Trump in Bulter: Time stood still at site of assassination attempt, he says - BBC.com - October 7th, 2024 [October 7th, 2024]
- Noticias Univision Townhall with Former President Donald Trump Moved to Wednesday, Oct. 16 Due to Hurricane Milton - Univision Communications - October 7th, 2024 [October 7th, 2024]
- Donald Trump returns to scene of rally shooting in Butler - BBC.com - October 7th, 2024 [October 7th, 2024]
- Joe: Vance clearly said he was going to continue the lies of Donald Trump - MSNBC - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- JD Vance again refuses to say Donald Trump lost the 2020 presidential election - The Associated Press - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Donald Trump Claims Kim Jong Un Is Trying to Kill Me, Rants About Water-Free Bathrooms During Incoherent-Even-for-Him Remarks - Vanity Fair - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Donald Trump Mocked Jimmy Carter on the Former President's 100th Birthday - Newsweek - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Make Them Riot: Newly Unsealed Filing Gives New Details Of Federal Election Conspiracy Case Against Donald Trump - Deadline - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Donald Trump Gets October Boost as Flurry of Polls Give Him the Edge - Newsweek - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Opinion | The Dangers of Donald Trump, From Those Who Know Him - The New York Times - September 26th, 2024 [September 26th, 2024]