Democrats need to subpoena Mike Pence, Elaine Chao and others to testify at Trump’s trial – MSNBC
Well, that was a hell of a ride. House impeachment managers wrapped up their opening arguments against former President Donald Trump on Thursday. Trump's defense lawyers take the floor Friday to counter the overwhelming evidence the managers laid out but apparently it won't take them long.
Trump's lawyers reportedly don't believe they'll need the full two days available to them to make their shoddy, legally questionable argument to acquit their client, which has some senators thinking that the trial might wrap up as soon as Saturday. That's assuming, though, that the Senate doesn't vote to allow witnesses to be called.
Neither Democratic nor Republican senators seemed particularly enthusiastic about the idea of witnesses. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., indicated Thursday that the managers haven't decided whether they want to call people to the stand yet, saying, "They will make that decision after the opening arguments of both sides."
Now, you may think this case is a slam dunk for the managers. You may think that there's zero chance that enough Republicans will vote to convict the former president and that we might as well end this sooner rather than later. But if Democrats choose not to call witnesses, they'll be leaving a huge opportunity on the table.
As solid as the managers' case is, it will likely still need the extra emphasis of witnesses testifying under oath before the senators vote on the article of impeachment. And the level of incompetence that we've seen so far from Trump's attorneys, Bruce Castor and David Schoen, makes me think that any of their attempts at cross-examination would do little to bolster their case.
With that in mind, I've come up with a short list of witnesses the managers should call. These witnesses are chosen not just for their ability to confirm the case that's been made, but also for their proximity to Washington, which would allow them to appear on the Senate floor on short notice. And, as I noted before, the Senate has full authority to issue subpoenas to compel them to appear.
Of all the Trump officials who resigned in the aftermath of the riot, it would be wisest to call former Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao
Trump himself has declined to appear, but former Vice President Mike Pence should be the top choice to testify. It's Pence whom the impeachment managers zeroed in on as one of the rioters' main targets. And it is Pence who angered Trump on Jan. 6 ahead of the rally by saying he wouldn't overturn the election results. We should hear from him in his own words about what happened that morning and whether he believed Trump's lies about the election results.
Then, of all the Trump officials who resigned in the aftermath of the riot, it would be wisest to call former Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao. Chao wrote in her resignation note to her staff, which Rep. Ted Lieu, D-Calif., cited Thursday, that "our country experienced a traumatic and entirely avoidable event as supporters of the president stormed the Capitol building following a rally he addressed." She added that it "troubled" her "in a way that I simply cannot set aside."
It seems reasonable to invite Chao to sit for an explanation of just what she meant and what role she believed the former president played in the attack on the Capitol. (It doesn't hurt that Chao is married to Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., which could keep the defense from going after her too hard.)
Several senators could be brought to the stand, but freshman Sen. Tommy Tuberville, R-Ala., jumped to the top of the list Wednesday. Tuberville confirmed on the record that on the day of the attack he received a call from Trump but had to hang up on him abruptly. "I said, 'Mr. President, they just took the vice president out, I've got to go,'" Tuberville said. As several people have noted, that call happened before Trump's tweet threatening Pence further as the mob was already inside the building. Tuberville should recount that phone call under threat of perjury.
Democrats should absolutely call in FBI Director Christopher Wray to bolster their statements about how foreseeable the violence Trump incited actually was.
While the impeachment managers have already artfully detailed the dangers and injuries that Capitol Police officers faced during the insurrection, it would be worth bringing one of them in to speak directly about events. My preference would be to hear from Officer Michael Fanone, who suffered a mild heart attack from the multiple Taser hits the mob administered.
Speaking of law enforcement, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., recently threatened that if Democrats call witnesses, then Republicans will "want the FBI to come in and tell us about how people preplanned this attack and what happened with the security footprint of the Capitol." To which I say ... sure of course, Democrats should absolutely call in FBI Director Christopher Wray to bolster their statements about how foreseeable the violence Trump incited actually was. He could also speak to the indictments filed so far in which rioters have said they looked to Trump for guidance.
And finally, former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows should absolutely be compelled to give his version of events. That's one of the biggest black holes right now in the official record, despite the news reports of Trump's apparent delight. Meadows was reportedly with Trump all day, and he would be able to speak to his mood and actions in a way that would solidify the charge that for hours, the former president did nothing to stop the mob he incited.
Alternatives to those six speakers could include either former White House counsel Pat Cipollone, who was also with Trump on Jan. 6 and could speak to the many attempts to subvert the election after Nov. 3, and former acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller, who could answer questions about the delay in deploying the National Guard.
While the rules of interviewing witnesses have yet to be agreed upon, the process doesn't have to drag out the proceedings. Each side could take one day total, eight hours each, to question these witnesses and any others. While a witness an hour or so is a pretty fast clip, it would also preclude any weird tangents or nongermane questioning. And, well, on a personal level I just really want to see what would happen if Schoen or Castor tried to trip up Wray or Fanone on the stand, not to mention having Pence and Tuberville unable to lie or dodge questions.
The managers have done an admirable job planting the events of Jan. 6 firmly in the historical record. Now they need to go one step further. In historians' parlance, they need to incorporate true primary source material from witnesses on hand into the catalogue of abuses that they've already compiled against the former president. They may not guarantee a conviction. But we, the American people, deserve to have their voices included.
Read more from the original source:
Democrats need to subpoena Mike Pence, Elaine Chao and others to testify at Trump's trial - MSNBC
- Mike Pence has message for Trump just days after ripping the president and angering MAGA - PennLive.com - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Former US VP Mike Pence: Providing Ukraine with means to defend itself is an imperative for the entire West - All Israel News - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Mike Pence Reacts to Trump's Pivot on Tariffs - MSN - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Mike Pence to receive JFK Profile in Courage Award for actions during January 6 insurrection - CBS News - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Mike Pence has spent the week making Trump fans and the MAGA world mad - PennLive.com - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- And the JFK Library Profile in Courage Award goes to: Former VP Mike Pence - MassLive - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Mike Pence to get JFK Profile in Courage Award for certification of 2020 election - The Independent - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Mike Pence to receive JFK profile in courage - news8000.com - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Mike Pence to Receive JFK Profile in Courage Award - The Well News - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Mike Pence to get JFK Profile in Courage Award for certification of 2020 election - MSN - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Mike Pence to receive JFK Profile in Courage Award - Irish Star - April 10th, 2025 [April 10th, 2025]
- Former US VP Mike Pence: Like Israel, the US should give Taiwan 'the ability to defend herself by herself' - All Israel News - April 1st, 2025 [April 1st, 2025]
- President Donald Trump delivers his State of the Union address to a joint session of Congress on Capitol Hill in Washington, as Vice President Mike... - March 5th, 2025 [March 5th, 2025]
- In Trumps Washington, Mike Pence Is Odd Man Out - The Dispatch - February 27th, 2025 [February 27th, 2025]
- People Are Genuinely Stunned They Agree With Mike Pence's Ukraine Tweet - Yahoo - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Mike Pence aims to be 'constructive force' during Trump's second term while willing to challenge him - Fox News - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Mike Pence emerges as one of the few Republicans willing to challenge Trump 2.0 - The Associated Press - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Mike Pence criticizes President Trump for saying Ukraine started war with Russia - IndyStar - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Mike Pence lashes out, but most Republicans mum as Trump savages Ukraine and Zelensky - The Independent - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Mike Pence emerges as one of the few Republicans willing to challenge Trump 2.0 - Niagara Gazette - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Mike Pence lashes out schools Trump on who started the Ukraine-Russia war - Boing Boing - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- All those to speak out against Donald Trump as Mike Pence rallies against former boss - Evening Standard - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Mike Pence emerges as one of the few Republicans willing to challenge Trump - Mon Valley Independent - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Incensed Mike Pence Slaps Down Trump Over His Sucking Up to Putin - MSN - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Mike Pence emerges as one of the few Republicans willing to challenge Trump 2.0 - LPHeraldDispatch.com - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Mike Pence emerges as one of the few Republicans willing to challenge Trump 2.0 - WPLG Local 10 - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Mike Pence emerges as one of the few Republicans willing to challenge Trump 2.0 - HubcitySPOKES.com - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Mike Pence emerges as one of the few Republicans willing to challenge Trump 2.0 - Oil City Derrick - February 23rd, 2025 [February 23rd, 2025]
- Mike Pence Revives Trump Tirades Against RFK Jr. in New Ad - The Daily Beast - February 1st, 2025 [February 1st, 2025]
- Mike Pence Shares Brutal Video Montage of Trumps Own Words on RFK Jr. - The New Republic - February 1st, 2025 [February 1st, 2025]
- Mike Pence Takes Aim at Donald Trump: 'Deviated From This Record' - Newsweek - February 1st, 2025 [February 1st, 2025]
- Mike Pence Shares Brutal Video Montage of Trumps Own Words on RFK Jr. - Yahoo! Voices - February 1st, 2025 [February 1st, 2025]
- Opinion | Mike Pence Hits the Hong Kong Target - The Wall Street Journal - January 26th, 2025 [January 26th, 2025]
- Mike Pence Back on the Scene as His Group Moves to Undermine Trump - MSN - January 26th, 2025 [January 26th, 2025]
- Mike Pence to attend inauguration - ABC7 Los Angeles - January 26th, 2025 [January 26th, 2025]
- Mike Pence arrives at Capitol before Trump inauguration - CBS News - January 22nd, 2025 [January 22nd, 2025]
- Mike Pence Will Reportedly Attend Trump's Inauguration: What We Know - Newsweek - January 22nd, 2025 [January 22nd, 2025]
- Mike Pence to Trump: cutting Taiwan support would likely spark a new nuclear arms race - The Guardian - January 22nd, 2025 [January 22nd, 2025]
- Mike Pence booed by crowd as former presidents enter Capitol Rotunda - FOX 5 DC - January 22nd, 2025 [January 22nd, 2025]
- Rachel Maddow Admits Mike Pence's Wife Refusing to Stand for Trump at President Carter Funeral Is Marriage Goals - TheWrap - January 22nd, 2025 [January 22nd, 2025]
- Bill and Hillary Clinton and Mike Pence BOOED by MAGA fans as they enter the Capitol Rotunda - Daily Mail - January 22nd, 2025 [January 22nd, 2025]
- Mike Pence makes shocking U-turn on Donald Trump support despite being branded as 'disloyal' - Daily Mail - January 22nd, 2025 [January 22nd, 2025]
- Mike Pence makes brutal 'arms race' warning to Donald Trump - Irish Star - January 22nd, 2025 [January 22nd, 2025]
- Ex-Mike Pence Aide Olivia Troye Says Kash Patel Threatened to Sue Her for Calling Him a Delusional Liar on MSNBC - Yahoo! Voices - December 5th, 2024 [December 5th, 2024]
- Ex-Mike Pence Aide Olivia Troye Says Kash Patel Threatened to Sue Her for Calling Him a 'Delusional Liar' on MSNBC - TheWrap - December 5th, 2024 [December 5th, 2024]
- Karoline Leavitt praised Mike Pence in 2021 and then deleted two social media posts - The Times of India - December 5th, 2024 [December 5th, 2024]
- Mike Pence urges Senate Republicans to reject RFK Jr for US health secretary - The Guardian US - November 16th, 2024 [November 16th, 2024]
- RFK Jr. nomination to HHS slammed by Mike Pence over abortion rights stance - USA TODAY - November 16th, 2024 [November 16th, 2024]
- Mike Pence Urges Senate To Oppose RFK Jr. For HHS Secretary Over Abortion Stance - HuffPost - November 16th, 2024 [November 16th, 2024]
- Mike Pence blasts Trump's pick of RFK, says health nominee is betrayal of pro-life movement - Washington Times - November 16th, 2024 [November 16th, 2024]
- Mike Pence's 'Prayer' For Trump Proves Their Chilly Relationship Isn't Thawing Anytime Soon - The List - November 16th, 2024 [November 16th, 2024]
- Mike Pence Breaks with Trump on Pardoning Capitol Rioters, Says No One Who Assaulted Officers on January 6 Should Be Pardoned - LatinTimes - November 16th, 2024 [November 16th, 2024]
- Mike Pence Reacts to Donald Trump's Decisive Election Win - Newsweek - November 10th, 2024 [November 10th, 2024]
- Mike Pence reacts to Donald Trumps election win after declining to endorse him - KCBD - November 10th, 2024 [November 10th, 2024]
- Jack Smith immunity appendix reveals highlighted pages of Mike Pence book that Jan. 6 prosecutors want to use against Trump - Law & Crime - October 21st, 2024 [October 21st, 2024]
- Mike Pence Is Haunting This Election - The Atlantic - October 21st, 2024 [October 21st, 2024]
- Did Mike Pence endorse Kamala Harris for president? Here's the truth - The Economic Times - October 21st, 2024 [October 21st, 2024]
- So what: Trumps alleged reaction to news that Mike Pence was in danger on Jan 6 - The Independent - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Why former Indiana governor, VP Mike Pence came up in the debate between Walz and Vance - IndyStar - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Days before Trump rioters tried to hang him, Mike Pence was warned he would be in danger - NJ.com - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Trump 'resorted to crimes,' bullied VP Mike Pence in Jan. 6 election interference plot: newly unsealed filing - New York Daily News - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Mike Pence quietly lays the groundwork for a post-Trump future - Semafor - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Mike Pence Delivers Blow To Trump Weeks Ahead of Election - MSN - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Fox contributor Kellyanne Conway attempts to minimize the divide between Donald Trump and Mike Pence - Media Matters for America - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Mike Pence takes extraordinary swipe at Trump in sign that he wants to return to politics - Daily Mail - October 3rd, 2024 [October 3rd, 2024]
- Mike Pence Offers Advice to JD Vance - Newsweek - September 19th, 2024 [September 19th, 2024]
- Mike Pence Offers Advice to JD Vance - MSN - September 19th, 2024 [September 19th, 2024]
- Shame: National Review Slams Trump-Vance Ticket for Doubling Down on Election Denialism and Slandering Mike Pence - Mediaite - September 19th, 2024 [September 19th, 2024]
- Trump Wants to Hide His Attempt to Assassinate Mike Pence from Voters - Emptywheel - August 31st, 2024 [August 31st, 2024]
- Mike Pence Group Issues Warning to Donald Trump Over RFK. Jr.'Loony Ideas' - Newsweek - August 31st, 2024 [August 31st, 2024]
- 'We're Gonna Pray Right Now': Mike Pence Reveals Immediate Reaction to Learning of Trump Assassination Attempt - CBN.com - August 18th, 2024 [August 18th, 2024]
- Former VP Mike Pence to address Long Island Association business group in October - Newsday - August 16th, 2024 [August 16th, 2024]
- Were Gonna Pray Right Now: Mike Pence Reveals Immediate Reaction to Learning of Trump Assassination Attempt - Faithwire - August 16th, 2024 [August 16th, 2024]
- Buttigieg compares JD Vance to Mike Pence in rebuke of Trump VP pick - The Hill - July 24th, 2024 [July 24th, 2024]
- Mike Pence thanks Biden for stepping out of presidential race: 'The right decision' - KOMO News - July 24th, 2024 [July 24th, 2024]
- The most important story about Trumps VP is why he needs a new one - Media Matters for America - July 12th, 2024 [July 12th, 2024]
- Trump v. United States Opines On Whether The Vice President Is a Legislative Officer - Reason - July 12th, 2024 [July 12th, 2024]
- Former Pence adviser blasts Trump trying to distance himself from Project 2025: Ludicrous - Washington Examiner - July 12th, 2024 [July 12th, 2024]
- Pence slams RNC platform changes on abortion - Washington Examiner - July 12th, 2024 [July 12th, 2024]
- Mike Pence warns against pro-life 'surrender' in revised RNC platform - Washington Times - July 12th, 2024 [July 12th, 2024]