Vinnie Liu Has a Mission: Keeping People Safe Online and Offline – DARKReading
Vinnie Liu was only 17 years old when he landed his first job the National Security Agency (NSA). The year was 1999, and he worked onsignals intelligence gathering.
It was a formidable but typical start for Liu, now Bishop Fox CEO and co-founder. The NSA was looking for promising high school graduates with proven fluency in hacking and programming languages. Liu, then an incoming computer science majorwith apsychology minor at the University of Pennsylvania, spent two years commuting from Philadelphia to the NSA satellite office in Baltimore. His first year was focused on red-team hacking and the second on specialized tool development.
Working at the NSA really opened my eyes into how deep you can get, into how deep this rabbit hole can go," Liu says. "I had grown up with bulletin-board systems on the Internet. Cybersecurity wasnt even a term people used.
Thats about all he will say about his work at the NSA, except that it involved nation-state actors. But the experience left a lasting imprint.
It gave me a huge sense of being mission-driven, Liu says. Were missionaries, not mercenaries. Our mission, fundamentally, is to keep people safe both online and offline.
That mission ultimately manifested itself as Bishop Fox, an offensive security firm whose team of hackers pretend to be villains. In other words, they try every possible way to penetrate a clients security defenses, including adversary simulations and purple teaming (red teaming and advising the clients blue team at the same time).
But for all the criminal cunning that Bishop Fox staff need to employ, Liu thinks of the companys work in medical terms. Bishop Fox, he says, is the doctors doctor.
There are so many similarities between good health practice and security, he tells Dark Reading. You dont just prescribe pills and thats it. You dont eat healthy and exercise once and thats it.
This approach is a view into the two personal qualities underlying Lius success: his sense of purpose missionaries, not mercenaries and his palpable scorn for complacency. Lius brand of optimism is hard, even austere.
People in the industry have too pessimistic a view, he says. I dont even like the joke, 'Its not if you get hacked, but when.' Our whole philosophy is defending forward.
Career PathLike many successful tech firms, Bishop Fox has humble origins: the living room of a bachelor pad.
Liu had graduated from Penn in 2003, having focused on network security and adaptive intrusion detection services. He then joined Ernst & Young as a security consultant, performing penetration testing for Fortune 500 clients. Liu calls Ernst & Youngs Advanced Security Center a kind of NSA for the private sector.
Working with Liu at Ernst & Young was Francis Brown, now on Bishop Foxs board. Brown and Liu had lived on the same hall as freshmen at Penn, and both studied computer science. They were the only first-year students in their program who did not drop out within the year, Liu says. The two friends lived as housemates in Arizona, where as long as we could afford pizza and Internet, we were good to go.
Honeywell would eventually poach both men from Ernst & Young; Liu would lead Honeywells global penetration testing team, plus the teams of Honeywells various subsidiaries. The chance to build up Honeywells team was an exciting prospect, but turned out to be a limited opportunity: Once the team was built, the slower pace of work left Liu (and Brown) restless. Liu had outgrown the role; by 2005 he was speaking at conferences like Black Hat on how to bypass anti-forensic tools a skill he had been developing since his teens. Both Liu and Brown started moonlighting as independent security professionals.
Then one day, in 2006, Liu, Brown, and a third contributor sat in the living room and toyed with the idea of launching a security services startup.
We said, Why not? Liu remembers. We were really enjoying this.
From 2006 to 2009, we were a lifestyle company, says Liu, referring to the fact that the company was still kind of a hobby for them. In 2009 they switched to a professional mindset, and Bishop Fox was born. Liu and his partners set about recruiting the best talent they could find and attracting bigger and bigger-name clients. Their revenue rose, despite launching during the Great Recession.
It was also the Titan Rain era when a string of attacks believed to be the work of Chinese state-sponsored actors compromised a number of government agencies in the United States and United Kingdom and companies and government agencies were beginning to realize how vulnerable they really were. Binary analysis and incident-response forensics were suddenly in high demand. Liu was one of only a few hundred people in the United States who had any experience with both of these functions, and most of his peers had only worked with disk forensics.
We sucked at it back then! he laughs. Everyone did. We were playing catch-up with the people writing the viruses.
Fast-Forward to NowThese days Bishop Fox offers various assessment tests, including the comprehensive 4+1 methodology, in which several assessments and simulations are built around a central tabletop exercise. But all of the company's services involve continuous work with a clients developers, architects, and teams, rather than the waterfall style of performing one test here and another test there. Sometimes an assessment alone can take two months to complete.
This is not a let me just kick the tires kind of scan, Liu says. We look at code. We look at business logic issues. We like to find the hard problems, we always exploit, and were going to chase it down all the way.
Liu doesn't let clients rest on their brand-new tools or infrastructure either. Youve got to get the basics right," he says. "We teach them how to take a punch and keep going.
Twelve years later, the threats have grown, attackers have become more sophisticated, and defenders are changing how they approach security. Liu has observed security teams shift away from compliance-based security and toward ongoing, developmental security operations.
What does that mean for Bishop Fox?
Weve been very discreet, says Liu. I think its time to come out of our shell. Weve done good work with big name clients. Its time to go out into the world and talk, to bring good work to more people.
The landscape may have changed, but Lius mission hasnt: keeping people safe, online and off.
PERSONALITY BYTES
What is Vinnie Lius greatest success? This sounds terrible, but Im really proud of the people who have come through Bishop Fox. Some of our alumni have become CISOs at publicly traded companies. Recruiters will just hang up if they hear you work at Bishop Fox [because they know how hard it is to hire people away].
One thing his colleagues would never guess about him? I dance goofy, I sing loudly, roll on the ground, make faces. Ill do anything to make my kids laugh and smile.
His dream job if he worked in a different industry? Definitely something where I make things with my hands food for people, construction, etc.
Favorite thing to do in his spare time? My pandemic skill has been failing to grow things in my garden. The universe has somehow blighted the 32-square-feet of backyard where my garden lies.
Favorite book? Im a huge sci-fi/fantasy book nerd. The more space battles, wizards, and aliens, the better.
Read more:
Vinnie Liu Has a Mission: Keeping People Safe Online and Offline - DARKReading
- The NSA says do these 5 things with your phone right now - Fox News - January 30th, 2025 [January 30th, 2025]
- NSA: Iraqi territory will not be used to attack neighboring countries Iraqi News Agency - ina.iq - January 30th, 2025 [January 30th, 2025]
- NDC is not here to witch-hunt - Opare Addo to NSA staff - GhanaWeb - January 30th, 2025 [January 30th, 2025]
- NSA Warns iPhone And Android UsersDisable Location Tracking - Forbes - January 19th, 2025 [January 19th, 2025]
- Trumps incoming NSA: Hamas must have no role in governing Gaza - JNS.org - January 19th, 2025 [January 19th, 2025]
- Trump NSA Disputes Report That Neocons Are Influencing MAGA Staffing - RealClearDefense - January 19th, 2025 [January 19th, 2025]
- US NSA lauds Ajit Doval for pivoting ties to advanced future tech - The Times of India - January 9th, 2025 [January 9th, 2025]
- Auto insurtech Clearcover expands into Texas NSA market with CGA launch - Re-Insurance.com - January 9th, 2025 [January 9th, 2025]
- "Cannot Think Of A Better Way To End My Tenure": US NSA On His India Visit - NDTV - January 9th, 2025 [January 9th, 2025]
- Heightened Security At U.S. Naval Academy And NSA Annapolis: Public Access Suspended Amid Increased Force Protection Measures - Bay Net - January 9th, 2025 [January 9th, 2025]
- From The Seabed To The Stars: 10 Takeaways From U.S. NSA Sullivans Visit - Strategic News Global - January 9th, 2025 [January 9th, 2025]
- NSA Sullivan to visit India to finalise important ongoing initiatives: White House - The Hindu - January 9th, 2025 [January 9th, 2025]
- What NSA Jake Sullivans India Visit Signals For Nuclear And Tech Ties As US Lifts Curbs On Indian Entities - Swarajya - January 9th, 2025 [January 9th, 2025]
- NSA Sullivan arrives today, seeks to strengthen AI, space, tech ties - The Tribune India - January 9th, 2025 [January 9th, 2025]
- CISA, NSA, and Partners Issue Annual Report on Top Exploited Vulnerabilities - HSToday - December 5th, 2024 [December 5th, 2024]
- Where Will The Top Amateurs at NSA Yamaha Land After the Team Closes? - Vurbmoto - December 5th, 2024 [December 5th, 2024]
- CISA, NSA, FBI and International Partners Publish Guide for Protecting Communications Infrastructure - HSToday - December 5th, 2024 [December 5th, 2024]
- Main players backing Syrian government have been weakened by other conflicts, NSA Sullivan says - NBC News - December 5th, 2024 [December 5th, 2024]
- Trump's incoming NSA Mike Waltz wants US to dance cheek-to-check with India - The Times of India - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- What Trump's NSA Nominee Said On India's Pivotal Role In The 21st Century - NDTV - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- Exclusive: Nakasone on exploding pagers, life after the NSA and another possible government job - The Record from Recorded Future News - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- FBI, CISA, and NSA reveal most exploited vulnerabilities of 2023 - BleepingComputer - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- CISA, NSA, and Partners Issue Annual Report on Top Exploited Vulnerabilities - National Security Agency - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- 6 Principles of Operational Technology Cybersecurity released by joint NSA initiative - Security Intelligence - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- It's official FBI, CISA, and NSA reveal the most exploited vulnerabilities of 2023 - TechRadar - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- Donald Trump picks Mike Waltz as US NSA: What it means for China and India - The Times of India - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- Who is Mike Waltz, Donald Trump's new NSA pick? What are his ties to India Caucus? - Firstpost - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- NSA should not oversee the management of national facilities RexDanquah - Citi Sports Online - November 14th, 2024 [November 14th, 2024]
- Trudeaus NSA admits to leaking secret intel alleging Indias interference to Washington Post - Firstpost - October 31st, 2024 [October 31st, 2024]
- White House dials NSA Ajit Doval: Here's what happened in the call - The Economic Times - October 31st, 2024 [October 31st, 2024]
- NSA Doval Stresses Need For Stable Indo-Pacific In Phone Call With US Counterpart Sullivan - News18 - October 31st, 2024 [October 31st, 2024]
- Director-General of NSA calls for continued support from government - GhanaWeb - October 21st, 2024 [October 21st, 2024]
- 5G Non Standalone Nsa Architecture Market to Reach USD 240.0 - openPR - October 21st, 2024 [October 21st, 2024]
- NSA meets with Minister Muir and DAERA to discuss industry concerns - Meat Management - October 21st, 2024 [October 21st, 2024]
- NSA cyber chief: Espionage is now Russias focus for cyberattacks on Ukraine - The Record from Recorded Future News - October 11th, 2024 [October 11th, 2024]
- NSA Investigating If Chinese Hackers Breached US Telecoms - Yahoo Finance - October 11th, 2024 [October 11th, 2024]
- NSA Issues Updated Guidance on Russian SVR Cyber Operations - National Security Agency - October 11th, 2024 [October 11th, 2024]
- News - Honoring the Stars and Stripes: NSA Philadelphia Hosts Dignified Flag Disposal Ceremony - DVIDS - October 11th, 2024 [October 11th, 2024]
- NSA's Program for Nursing Mothers in the Workplace Considered a Model for USG - National Security Agency - October 11th, 2024 [October 11th, 2024]
- NSA investigating hack of three major telecommunications companies - Baltimore Sun - October 11th, 2024 [October 11th, 2024]
- Honoring the Stars and Stripes: NSA Philadelphia Hosts Dignified Flag Disposal Ceremony [Image 8 of 8] - DVIDS - October 11th, 2024 [October 11th, 2024]
- NSA Hiring Over a Thousand in the Next Year - ClearanceJobs - October 4th, 2024 [October 4th, 2024]
- What Its Really Like to Work at NSA - National Security Agency - October 4th, 2024 [October 4th, 2024]
- US Elections: Former NSA John Bolton Claims Both Harris And Trump Do Not Qualify To Be President | NewsX Exclusive - NewsX - October 4th, 2024 [October 4th, 2024]
- Honoring the fallen: Bells toll for Americas heroes at NSA Mechanicsburg - American Military News - October 4th, 2024 [October 4th, 2024]
- How often should you turn off your phone? Heres what the NSA says - PCWorld - October 4th, 2024 [October 4th, 2024]
- NSA and Allies Issue Advisory about PRC-Linked Actors and Botnet Operations - HSToday - September 28th, 2024 [September 28th, 2024]
- NSA warns that Active Directory is an "exceptionally large and difficult to defend" attack surface - The Stack - September 28th, 2024 [September 28th, 2024]
- News - Honoring the Fallen: Bells Toll for Americas Heroes at NSA Mechanicsburg - DVIDS - September 28th, 2024 [September 28th, 2024]
- National Storage Affiliates Trust (NYSE:NSA) Given Average Recommendation of "Reduce" by Brokerages - MarketBeat - September 28th, 2024 [September 28th, 2024]
- Lack of Standard Stadiums: NSA boss sacked, facilities closed - What has been said and done so far - GhanaWeb - September 21st, 2024 [September 21st, 2024]
- NSA and Allies Issue Advisory about PRC-Linked Actors and Botnet Operations - National Security Agency - September 21st, 2024 [September 21st, 2024]
- UTEP Establishes Collaboration with DoD, NSA to Help Enhance U.S. Semiconductor Workforce - The University of Texas at El Paso - September 21st, 2024 [September 21st, 2024]
- The NSA advises you to turn off your phone once a week - here's why - ZDNet - September 21st, 2024 [September 21st, 2024]
- NSA Publishes Cyber Advisory on China-Linked Threat Actors - Executive Gov - September 21st, 2024 [September 21st, 2024]
- Former NSA Director Nakasone opens new institute at Vanderbilt to train right type of leader - Washington Times - September 21st, 2024 [September 21st, 2024]
- ACR lauds legislation that would fine insurers for delayed NSA payments - AuntMinnie - September 16th, 2024 [September 16th, 2024]
- NSA threatens lawsuit over election rigging allegation, demands apology - Pulse Nigeria - September 16th, 2024 [September 16th, 2024]
- NSA explains its work with private sector on election security and fighting foreign cyber threats - Washington Times - September 16th, 2024 [September 16th, 2024]
- NSA to debut podcast to boost public awareness of classified missions - Nextgov/FCW - August 31st, 2024 [August 31st, 2024]
- In Beijing, Bidens NSA Calls Out Chinas Destablising Actions, Openly Supports Philippines - Hindustan Times - August 31st, 2024 [August 31st, 2024]
- Why the NSA advises you to turn off your phone once a week - ZDNet - August 31st, 2024 [August 31st, 2024]
- Getting into rhythm: NSA places high expectations on themselves for 2024 - Suffolk News-Herald - August 31st, 2024 [August 31st, 2024]
- NSA readying podcast to share untold stories of codebreakers missions - Washington Times - August 31st, 2024 [August 31st, 2024]
- Trump govt stopped aid to Pakistan over ISI's 'undeniable complicity' with terrorists: Ex-US NSA - Hindustan Times - August 31st, 2024 [August 31st, 2024]
- Top NSA researcher tapped to lead Pentagons UAP investigation hub - DefenseScoop - August 27th, 2024 [August 27th, 2024]
- NSA Releases Guide to Combat Living Off the Land Attacks - Infosecurity Magazine - August 27th, 2024 [August 27th, 2024]
- With a little help from the National Archives, NSA finally releases Grace Hopper lecture. Watch it here. - MuckRock - August 27th, 2024 [August 27th, 2024]
- Trump administration NSA H.R. McMaster says there was "inconsistency" in foreign policy - CBS News - August 25th, 2024 [August 25th, 2024]
- 'Putin exploited Trump's ego and insecurities': Former NSA in new book - The Times of India - August 25th, 2024 [August 25th, 2024]
- NSA calls for urgent Government action on illegal sheep imports - Meat Management - August 14th, 2024 [August 14th, 2024]
- Sheikh Hasina Resignation LIVE Updates: Ex Bangladesh PM Sheikh Hasina Meets NSA Ajit Doval At Hindon Airbase - NDTV - August 5th, 2024 [August 5th, 2024]
- NSA Claims It Cant Watch an Important Tape It Recorded in the 1980s - Gizmodo - July 17th, 2024 [July 17th, 2024]
- Letter to NSA Sullivan Requesting Assessment of Information Russia Has Shared with the PRC on U.S. Weapons Capabilities in Ukraine - Select Committee... - July 17th, 2024 [July 17th, 2024]
- The NSA Is Defeated By A 1950s Tape Recorder. Can You Help Them? - Hackaday - July 17th, 2024 [July 17th, 2024]
- Letter to NSA on Microsoft's Billion Dollar Partnership with UAE Firm G42 - Select Committee on the CCP | - July 17th, 2024 [July 17th, 2024]
- NSA Fast Pitch World Series kicks off with Skills Competition & Heavy Hitters Camp, featuring College World Series Champions from the University... - July 17th, 2024 [July 17th, 2024]
- NSA contractor bilked government for hundreds of hours she never worked - Washington Times - July 6th, 2024 [July 6th, 2024]
- Signals intelligence has become a cyber-activity - The Economist - July 6th, 2024 [July 6th, 2024]
- OpenAI adds former NSA chief to its board - CNBC - June 15th, 2024 [June 15th, 2024]