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Tavis Smiley: Good evening from Los Angeles. Im Tavis Smiley.

Tonight, a conversation with conservative commentator and bestselling author, Ann Coulter. The unapologetically incendiary polemicist has written 10 New York Times bestsellers, including most recently her anti-immigration tome, !Adios, America!

She joins us tonight to discuss why she and, for that matter, GOP frontrunner, Donald Trump, and all the others have decided to focus their efforts on attacking Mexican immigrants even at the expense of alienating over 55 million Latino-Americans as a result.

Were glad youve joined us. A conversation with bestselling author, Ann Coulter, coming up right now.

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Announcer: And by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you. Thank you.

Tavis: Ann Coulter is, of course, a well-known conservative commentator and the author of 10 New York Times bestsellers, including her latest titled !Adios, America!

In the text, Ann outlines why she believes immigration is one of Americas greatest threats, an idea that has apparently been embraced by some leaders on the right, including current GOP frontrunner, Donald Trump, and every day it seems somebody else lines up behind him. Ann, good to have you on this program.

Ann Coulter: So good to be here.

Tavis: Let me jump right in because I want to make the most of the time we have. Let me just say up front. I hope that this conversation can be as much about humanity and dignity as it is about politics and polling. Because I want to try to better understand to the extent that I can.

I suspect viewers might want to better understand the motivation behind your rhetoric and, for that matter, Donald Trump and others. Let me just start, though, with the titles of some of your books. This one, !Adios, America!: The Lefts Plan to Turn Our Country Into a Third World Hellhole. You really believe that?

Coulter: Yes. Now part of what Im doing, obviously, is to have it be titled.

Tavis: I got it.

Coulter: So well leave that aside. You do need interesting rhetoric. Winston Churchill had interesting rhetoric. In fact, Im always asking Thomas Sowell if I could write the titles to his books because they have things like Basic Economics. Mr. Sowell, please let me do your titles.

But as I explain in the book, what happened is, it was the change with the 1965 Immigration Act. People get weepy over, you know, there are immigrants arriving at Ellis Island. Were getting a very different kind of immigrant now and it began as a specific plan to bring in lots of more Democratic voters and it worked.

But now, unfortunately, the Republicans are going along with it and I wish more people were joining Donald Trump, who, by the way, asked for and received an advance copy of this book. But they wont, they cant, because of their donors.

Just recently, Scott Walker tried to follow Trump by saying we have to do something about the anchor baby policy. One of his billionaire Republican donors said, nope, Im against that, and suddenly Scott Walker changes his mind.

So part of what Trump is doing is exposing how the Republican Party is so beholding to their donors and the donors want the cheap labor. They have Spanish language TV. Theyre making money off of this and they dont care what happens to America.

And, look, this isnt good just for Americans whove been here for hundreds of years. How about the immigrants who came last year and the year before? For some reason, they decided to immigrate to America, not to immigrate to Bangladesh, to Honduras, to Mexico. That country is disappearing.

The country they struggled to come to wont exist if we continue this mass dump of people from extremely different cultures and at a time when we not only have a welfare state, but its, you know, a hate crime to try to assimilate people to what is a very successful culture.

Tavis: Let me jump in. You said 10 things already. I could take any one of them and spend a whole show talking about it. So Im going to do the best I can to try to pick some of these things apart and give you a chance to respond.

So first of all, we agreeagain, I want to talk about humanity and dignity. We agree that there are too many immigrants, undocumented workers, who are being exploited by Republicans and Democrats. We agree on that. All right, what I dont think I agree with you on is that the country is getting a different kind of immigrant now than we were getting in 1965.

As I read your bookand I went through thiswhat I see in the book is much more anecdotal, respectfully, much more anecdotal than statistical. Thats my issue with Donald Trump and others who are taking anecdotes, incidents, where people do things that cannot be condoned or supported like the undocumented worker in San Francisco.

Those are anecdotal. I mean, all life is valuable, all life is precious, but those are anecdotes. Its not statistical. So when you say were getting a different kind of immigrant now than we had in 1965, explain that. What do you mean by that?

Coulter: Well, heres statistical and factual. 65 immigration acts went through right at the time of the Great Society program. So pre-1970 immigrantsand thats basically when it kicked inpre-1970 immigrants, 30% went home. They couldnt make it.

Well, now nobody goes home. You go on welfare and thats welfare meant for Americans. We have our own poor. We have our own criminals. We dont need more. Right now, 71% of illegal immigrants with children, i.e., anchor babies, are collecting government assistance. 71%.

Tavis: When you say government assistance, you mean by that, well, what are they getting?

Coulter: All kinds of things, food stamps. If you can claim a disability, social security disability insurance, housing aid, of course, schooling and second language

Tavis: But these are for children who were born in this country.

Coulter: Well, yes.

Tavis: Okay. So how is that some illegal, some foreigner, getting U.S. assistance if in fact they were born here? Now we can debate whether or not you think they ought to get assistance, but you cant advance the argument on this show that theyre somehow foreigners getting assistance if they were born here on this soil unless and until

Coulter: No. I am debating that.

Tavis: Well, unless and until we change the 14th Amendment, that arguments got a big hole in it.

Coulter: No, and I dont want to completely bore your audience, but I will say quickly I write about this in the book and I expanded it more in recent columns because even allegedly people on my side, but speaking for cheap labor, the interest of cheap labor are claiming that was what the 14th Amendment was about. No, it wasnt.

It was about freed slaves. 13th, 14th, 15th Amendment came after the Civil War to get an amendment attached to the Constitution. You need a mass feeling about a major subject. And Supreme Court case after Supreme Court case said this is about freed slaves. Indians didnt get citizenship.

It took another, I dont know, 50 years before even the children of legal immigrantsand I think that is incorrectthe illegal immigrants, i.e., anchor babies, it has been argued, briefed or decided by the Supreme Court. That was dictus slipped into a 1982 opinion by Justice Brennan in a closely-divided five to four decision, but that is not constitutional.

Tavis: But it is the law of the land. It is the edict

Coulter: It isnt, though. Its a policy that has been followed

Tavis: Its the policy and the edict, exactly. Its the edict thats been followed.

Coulter: And I dontlets put it to a vote because I am confident that 80% of Americans would say, no, citizenship in our country should not be a game of Red Rover with the border patrol.

Tavis: So my point to you is that, if we want to talk about changing the policy, then lets talk about changing the policy.

Coulter: Yes.

Tavis: But demeaning those babies who were born here through no fault of their own

Coulter: But its not demeaning.

Tavis: It is. Its demeaning, Ann

Coulter: You asked for statistics on how they were different.

Tavis: No, no. Its demeaning

Coulter: I just gave you how they were different.

Tavis: Its demeaning, and Ive responded by saying that, if that is the way the policy is written and that policy is the edict that we have followed and these babies are born here are considered Americans, then how do we call them anchor babies, and in that phraseology, disrespect and deny the dignity and the humanity of the child who had nothing to do with where he or she was born?

Coulter: Well, two things. First of all, I was responding to your question how are pre-1970 immigrants different from post-1970 immigrants.

Tavis: Right.

Coulter: 30% of them used to go home. Now they go on welfare and I was citing an actual straightforward statistic to respond to the anecdotal points. And I do want to respond specifically to that too. I dont think it demeans anyone. There is nothing about anchor baby and Im so glad Donald Trump didnt back down on this.

The normal Republican response when somebody yells and says you cant use that phrase or that word is, Oh, Im sorry. Well preemptively surrender. There is nothing sexual, racial, offensive. Anchor baby is a voting metaphor.

What happens is, illegal immigrants can run across the border, drop a baby, and say, Ha-ha, theres nothing you can do now. My kids an American citizen. Well, that wasnt the intent of the 14th Amendment. Americans would not agree with that. It creates a horrible incentive.

These babies, I agree, and the mothers that youre concerned about, theyre putting themselves in enormous danger. Theyre dying in the desert. We have put a magnet on our side of the border to create all these problems.

And if I can just get back to the anecdotes point, the reason this book became this book, it wasnt going to be about immigration. That was going to be one chapter in a much larger theme. And Id written a couple of the chapters already and then I get to the immigration chapter and I start looking for, you know, basic crime statistics.

I know that weve had a lot of immigration. How many immigrants are in prison? And what I found wasand Im a fanatical researcherwhat I found was a massive cover-up by both the government and the media in not telling us how many immigrants are in prison.

I describe it a little bit in Chapter 7, what you can find. So I say, look, Id love to have the absolute numbers. How many anchor babies are in prison? How many legal immigrants? How many illegal immigrants? For what kinds of crimes? And from what countries?

They wont tell us that, and this is why its become kind of a big thing now, how the headlines are always, you know, Man rapes child or Houston man rapes child. Id have to wait for the court transcripts to find out there was a court translator.

Tavis: Wheres the evidence that these undocumented workers who are having babies are doing it specifically for the reason of having anchor babies? How do we know that they arent in love? How do we know that they arent procreating like all the rest of us do?

Wheres the evidence that they are specifically laying with someone to have a baby so they can anchor themselves? Wheres the evidence that suggests that?

Coulter: Well, there is some evidence, but before answering the evidence, Id say who cares? Were a country. We ought to be able to consent to anyone who becomes a citizen. It shouldnt be a game with the border patrol. I mean, thats kind of crazy, but as for the evidence

Tavis: But my point is calling them an anchor baby when you dont know thats what the intent of that pregnancy was.

Coulter: But I dont care. It works that way.

Tavis: You should care, though.

Coulter: No, no, no. Youre asking about motive, but Ill get to the

Tavis: Im talking about language. Im talking about

Coulter: Ill get to the proof.

Tavis: Okay, go ahead, okay.

Coulter: But it still works as an anchor, whether or not that was in their minds, but, yes, there is evidence. For one thing, why would you choose when youre eight months pregnant to come across the border? Number two, there are birthing centers.

We have the pamphlets. We have the pamphlets saying, especially the pamphlets written in Chinese out here in California, of all these birthing centers saying, If your child becomes a citizen, you get in-state tuition, youll be able to come back any time you want. You can get an American passport. They have the lists of the advantages of coming to America and giving birth here.

Tavis: So let me advance. Let me advance. Even if Iwhich I obviously have not and will not concede to you that argument. I think Ive made my case and youve made yours. Well move on.

But even if that were the case, how does that number, the number of whatever government assistance is going to these babies born here, whatever that number is, that number, you must admit, pales and I mean pales in comparison to the billions of dollars that are generated in this economy by those undocumented workers. So one cancels the other out massively.

Coulter: Oh, I totally contest that.

Tavis: Hold on. Let me turn the record here. You think that the number of government assistance that goes to these babies outstrips the billions of dollars generated in this income by the work done by undocumented workers? You believe that?

Coulter: Yeah. The issue is where does the money go to? Yes, the capitalists, the employ

Tavis: It goes to those Republicans who you said earlier dont want to tell the truth

Coulter: Thats right.

Tavis: Because they believe that they make money off of it. Democrats too.

Coulter: It goes to the very rich, but the middle class and the lower class and the working class trying to get those jobs, theyre taking it up the shorts over and over again.

Tavis: That is the most

Coulter: No. It has been proved eight times on Sundays.

Tavis: Hold on. That is the mostrespectfully, I cant put these two words in the same sentence. But its the most absurd argument, and youre brilliant

Coulter: Well, let me explain

Tavis: Hold on. Ill let you explain. Let me tell you why its absurd. How many BlackI dont know any Black folk. Im so tired of hearing this argument.

I dont know any Black folk, I certainly dont know any white folk or anybody else whos standing in line because they want to pick grapes, because they want to pick strawberries, because they want to sell oranges, because they want to manicure lawns or work in kitchens or nanny babies. Where are the lines of all these Americans who theyre taking these jobs from?

Coulter: Well, the grape-picking, this is just lazy farmers refusing to mechanize. There are machines. We have robots. I mean, whens the last time youve seen a bank teller?

Tavis: Thats not my point, though. My question is, though

Coulter: As for the other jobs, working at McDonalds, working retail, these used to beI mean, for 200 years Americans did them. So a lot of teenagers used to do them and the Black unemployment in particular for teenaged Blacks, absolutely through the roof.

Tavis: Is off the charts, exactly.

Coulter: A lot of these were entry level jobs for teenagers that were talking about. But the idea that, you know, whos going to clean our homes and do our gardening or whatever? We used to do it. Somehow Americans used to get it done. Theres still a few states out in America, you know, Ill call my friends and say, Hey, guess what I saw in Iowa? I saw Americans doing jobs Americans just wont do.

Tavis: But to your point, though, Ann, if we keep being the magnetthats the word you used earlierif we keep being the magnet to pull people here from across the border for a better life because theyre willing to do that work, how then do we magnetize them, pull them over, and then blame them for coming when they were pulled by the magnet?

Coulter: You know, from my book, I mostly blame our elites. I mean, it is the elites against the middle in this case. I dont have to blame them to say that the policy has to change. No, I blame first of all the Democrats who wanted the voters and now the Republicans who want the donations from businessmen who want the cheap labor or the extra customers.

But you cant dump millions of poor people on the country and say that is good for Americans generally. It is good for people who hire those laborers.

They get the cheap labor, but Americans are out of jobs, their taxes are going to pay forinstead of, you know, What happened to our school pageant this year? Oh, sorry. We needed English as a second language. There are so many services, so many taxes, going to immigrants coming in. Again, we have our own poor people. We have our own criminals.

And as for the anecdotal evidence, if I could jump back to that, my motto is there are way too many immigrants who are criminals and there shouldnt be any. We have our own criminals. Not one immigrant should be a criminal. Not one immigrant should be on welfare. We cant do anything about our native poor. We cant do anything about our native criminals. We dont need more.

Tavis: There are two things. One, your argument suggests that, if these other persons werent here, that somehow we would be fairer and better by those who are already here.

Coulter: I think we would.

Tavis: Well, the evidence doesnt support that. The evidence doesnt support that. And thats why Black folk have been toiling for as long as they have been. Before somebody came across the border, Black folks still werent being respected. They were still the last hired and the first fired. The unemployment rate is still triple, quadruple, the national average.

I can do this all day. The health disparity still exists. Before anybody came across the border, Negroes were still being treated, maltreated, in the way they are right now.

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Author Ann Coulter | Interviews | Tavis Smiley | PBS